Desi-Rae Thinking (Big Tech, political narratives, why 2021 got so crazy and the strength of Bitcoin)
In this episode of The Judgment Call Podcast Desi-Rae and I talk about:
- How these ‘social media bans’ actually got started.
- Why ‘Big Tech is so powerful’ and why it is ‘eating politics’ right now.
- Is the ‘race conflict’ and ‘gender conflict’ and other hot button political issues just narratives that are used to distract citizens?
- How and why did the world go so ‘crazy’ the last few years?
- Is the overshoot of empathy to blame for the divisiveness of today?
- What are the pros/cons of Black Lives Matter (BLM) and the impact of the movement in summer 2020 in the US.
- Do Desi-Rae’s political opinions shape her artwork?
- Is Bitcoin a tool to create a better and more responsible government?
Desi-Rae is a Youtuber, Crypto enthusiast and artist. Desi-Rae started with videos she recorded while driving and she is not worried about touching sensitive topics like Race and IQ, Fascinated and Horrified.
Watch this episode on Youtube in 4K resolution.
You can reach Desi-Rae via Twitter.
Welcome to the Judgment Call Podcast, a podcast where I bring together some of the most curious minds on the planet. Risk takers, adventurers, travelers, investors, entrepreneurs and simply mind partners. To find all episodes of this show, simply go to Spotify, iTunes or YouTube or go to our website judgmentcallpodcast.com. If you like this show, please consider leaving a review on iTunes or subscribe to us on YouTube. This episode of the Judgment Call Podcast is sponsored by Mighty Travels Premium. Full disclosure, this is my business. We do at Mighty Travels Premium is to find the airfare deals that you really want. Thousands of subscribers have saved up to 95% in the airfare. Those include $150 round trip tickets to Hawaii for many cities in the US or $600 life let tickets in business class from the US to Asia or $100 business class life let tickets from Africa round trip all the way to Asia. In case you didn’t know, about half the world is open for business again and accepts travelers. Most of those countries are in South America, Africa and Eastern Europe. To try out Mighty Travels Premium, go to mightytravels.com slash MTP or if that’s too many letters for you, simply go to MTP, the number four and the letter U dot com to sign up for your 30 day free trial. All right, I’m here today with Desiree. Desiree is a YouTuber. She’s a crypto enthusiast and she’s an artist and then Desiree has started with her videos while she was driving actually. They got immensely popular on YouTube. Some of them touch very sensitive and also complicated topics to an extent. One that got really popular is race and IQ, fascinated and horrified, which garnered 160,000 views on YouTube. Thanks for doing this Desiree. Welcome to the Judge McCall podcast. Thank you. I’m happy to be here. I actually forget that I started driving in the car. Like I don’t even remember that, but that is how I started recording because that was the only place I like space that made sense because of where I was living at the time. So, yeah. Yeah, they looked very, to me, they looked like you had something on your mind that really needed to come out and you were like, it could have been anywhere, like literally it could have been in the restaurant, right? But you had something that you wanted to talk about with the world and obviously the world responded. That’s quite amazing. That is exactly what happened and it is amazing. I’m in the middle of like, I won’t say what, but writing an application, like a personal statement for an application and that’s basically what I say. It’s like, I started doing this thing and the little, did I know that like what I had to share my thoughts about would resonate with people and like I’m still doing it today. Like I’m still doing that. Not the same topics. Like I feel like my mind has like resolved a lot of the stuff that I’m guessing we’re going to talk about a bit, but I’m still like talking to people and it is very cool that, you know, people want to to to hear what you have to say and it’s funny you mentioned that that video, the race and IQ world got 160,000 views because I believe that YouTube like censors my channel. So it probably would have more if it weren’t for that and just literally yesterday I have a friend who was talking to me because I, you know, I’m moving from what I have moved now from WhatsApp to Signal because of the whole privacy thing. So I deleted my WhatsApp and he was like, oh, it’s nice to reconnect with you again. And then he was like, I’ve been unsubscribed from your YouTube like three times. I’ve never unsubscribed. Why does that happen? And I was like, yeah, YouTube does that. Yeah, I want to get into this, you know, it’s been something I’ve been been monitoring over the last couple of years and I started out with this podcast only last year. So it’s, it’s quite a new environment for me and I’m hoping I can learn from you. And one thing that that strikes me is that there seems to be these, let’s put it this way, we have, we seem to have a lot of accounts on Twitter and YouTube that’s strangely something strange is happening. They are not being as maybe they’re not being as advertised as other accounts. And there’s a lot of seemingly anecdotal evidence from accounts to just get a band and Donald Trump got banned, right? And if I talk to people here in San Francisco, they think I’m completely crazy, right? So most friends I have here, most locals say this, this is just, it’s not real, right? So if it happens, then it’s just an anecdotal evidence here, you’re exaggerating. And it just happens because people violate rules on Twitter. And then you listen to Tim Poole and he’s been very vocal about this. He said, well, you know, these rules are made in a particular way. That’s very difficult for someone who doesn’t have the same mindset to stay on that platform. And I noticed this, you know, we have my videos, we had a couple of videos where we wanted to talk about COVID and they didn’t, we couldn’t get them monetized. And that doesn’t mean we would have, they would have been banned, right? But it seems to be something strange is going on on social media. Do you feel, you said you’re being banned and I read you being, well, we’re being banned from PayPal. Do you feel that is kind of an, like an evil superpower that these platforms have? Or is that something that’s kind of, it’s a bit of randomness by the people who work there? What do you think that happens? And do you think that’s something that will change over the near term future? I don’t think that it’s an evil power. I think it’s just what happens when it’s just power. It’s like these platforms are providing something very useful and they’re doing it very well. So everyone kind of aggregates on them and they have like a network effect thing going on. So if you want to have your, if you want to participate in a lot of the discourse, I mean, I think that it’s going to change it. I guess that’s the second part of the question. You have to go to these platforms. So I don’t necessarily think that that power has to be evil or defined as evil. It’s just a power that exists and then it can be used for evil. So do I think that these people are being evil? Yes, actually. But do I think that they’re doing it purposefully? No, but I also don’t think that it’s random. So it’s not random. If it’s caused by a very specific trend, I guess that you can point to. So you’re in San Francisco and you’re saying that people don’t necessarily see what you’re seeing in terms of the censorship or they’re just saying, oh, people are violating the rules. So they’re not seeing what Tim Poole is talking about in terms of it being the rules being subjective enough that they can be used how these platforms want to use them. And so like when I say that it’s not random, it’s not because people like I’m guessing the people you’re talking to in San Francisco and the people who work at these tech companies or around them, they have certain biases and I think they don’t see how those rules are being applied inconsistently because of the biases that they have. So I think that maybe they’re not trying specifically to ban people who don’t agree with them, but they’re going to because of their biases. And so me, that means that it’s not random even though like the actual individual actions that an employee might be taking, they’re not like trying to get that effect in terms of banning closing the circle of discourse to what seems appropriate to them. But that’s what ends up happening. Oh, and then if it will change, do I have to see this change in the future? I do. I think that other platforms are going to grow because of this censorship. The way I think that censorship works is that people end up eating their own so that the who is censored is just going to grow more and more and then people get frustrated and like people want to communicate and connect. So they’re going to build other platforms. I’m a really, really big fan of GAB. I mean, I’m really I find of anyone who’s building anything. I’m also a fan of library. Other platforms I don’t I don’t know as well, or I don’t use it as often because I’m not attracted to it so much, but those are two platforms that I think are there. I think there’s a bit of complication in terms of the the message being able to use these platforms, but it’s like a adoption cycle. So you have the people who are there first and like that’s happening now and that that’s just going to grow over time. I think I saw recently that GAB said that they had like 200 million views, I think it was, which was similar to the views of major media publications, like the Atlantic publications like that and bigger than that. But I can’t remember the exact ones. I don’t want to say the wrong thing, you could probably guess. So I think things are going to change. And I did make a video recently where I was talking about Trump being banned, which is like, it’s kind of funny that this is just old news now, like it’s a really, really, really, really, really big deal that the president of like the United States, because he was still the president at the time, got banned from a platform where there’s breaking news that like occurs, this is where everybody goes. And he also in a certain way, I think built the platform, not I would not at all give him like credit for it, but a lot of people flocked there since 2016 because of like the political climate. And like, you could say that that’s a really bad thing. Like what he did, I think he’s just an effect, not a cause, but you know, like him being there, it definitely caused I think a lot of growth on Twitter. So I think that they are accelerating their own decline. But it just won’t seem like that right now. But people are going to get frustrated and they’re going to build new things. And it’s going to be like a slow cycle. I mean, I can’t, I can’t like say for sure, but that’s how like that adoption usually works. It’s like when like, this what happens, what’s what’s happening now with the WhatsApp signal thing, which I just mentioned, that signal has been around for years upon years. And then there are certain events that make people want to move. And then it’s like, there’s just happened, there’s like spikes and spikes and spikes. So I don’t know if it’s going to end up being Gabber Library, something new might come up. But I definitely think the landscape is going to change. And then there’s, I think I’m talking a lot. And then there’s going to be a new regulatory environment, because they’re not going to be able to censor these things in the same way. And then, well, we’re just going to have to deal with that as a humanity when we get there. Yeah, I think we are the interesting crossroads right now. And, you know, I grew up on a, in a country that fully subscribed to communism, right? I grew up in Eastern Germany. And I know that you grew up in Jamaica, and Jamaica has flirted with some kind of communism over time. A lot of countries have. And I would call it socialism, but I mean, sorry, one second, I’m sorry to interrupt you. I would call it in Jamaica socialism. Yeah, they never went mainstream, or they never, they never took over majority in in Jamaica, which is great. Well, what I’m trying to get to is, you know, we had in Eastern Europe, and in Soviet Union, you had these propaganda newspapers, and they were obviously called the biggest one was Pravda was called the truth, right? That’s the word for truth. And that was in Russia. And obviously, it was the anti truth, right? So everything you saw there was immediately being discounted as actually the opposite is true. Everyone knew that, right? Nobody was allowed to say that, but everybody knew that. And then there was no use to to read these stories, you would use it as a toilet paper. But not because you wanted to be derogatory, because we didn’t have any toilet paper, right? So that was always the problem. And there was really no no content in there. And I think this is what you just just touched upon is when you when you create a platform, but you don’t let the truth actually come out, then you you start your own decline, right? So you you become less and less relevant because the voices, you might have a certain consensus right now where you think this is the real truth, right? But this changes as we talk about things. You know, on Twitter, things that are two days old, they basically have people don’t even remember them, right? They are not in their presence anymore. And what I think is is the other side of this. And I think this is a death struggle for any platform that censors. But on the other hand, we have those. When I read that headline today, since the UK GDP dropped so much, the Apple now has a bigger valuation. I mean, the company is worth more than the whole GDP of the United of the United Kingdom one year of all the outputs of people who live in the United Kingdom. So what I’m what what I think we have, and I people don’t really see this enough, we have this tech government that already is so big that the president of the United States, most of the institutions of the United States, they’re not a match to the to the tech government, right? So Google’s influence on just in popular opinion, but also in terms of sheer dollars, and the same is true for Apple, same is true for Netflix, Twitter, maybe to a smaller extent, it’s ginormous. And I think people haven’t really fully realized how how much of an impact these tech companies have, not just because we are on YouTube, but literally on everyone’s and their opinion and how they live their life. I feel like, you know, it just takes a couple more years and the tech governments literally just run the whole world. A couple years, you said? A couple how many years? Yeah, I feel like it’s five, it’s five more years. And then, you know, with then it’s not just that we call it election manipulation. If Google simply decides who’s going to be the president in every single country, we’re not just talking about the US, we’re talking about every single country. And I don’t, there isn’t so much. And I’m not even sure this is a bad thing, right? So I don’t want to put value on it, but it seems like an odd process that there is so much power concentrated, and it’s easily used for political gains. Maybe they stay out of politics, I don’t think so, right? Because sooner or later, your business becomes politically, decisions on the ground can influence your business, and you try to control politics. That’s what I would do as an entrepreneur, right? So I go out to public leaders, I try to lobby them, I try to influence them. But if I can’t do this anymore, I put the pressure down a little harder. And I think we’re going to see this in way more countries, and it’s not just the United States. I think that the tech companies have a lot of power, but I think what is not, okay, so they only have a certain kind of power. They have the power of, I guess, the written word. They control the flow of information, which arguably is the greatest power there is, is the power of ideas, but they don’t have militaristic power, which I think is another kind of power that is really important for them to enforce ideas. However, we are, I think, seeing the merger of the government in some ways with social media. So what I mean by that specifically is the politics of the people on, I would say the left, merging with the politics of the people who run these tech companies. So there’s that informal merger going on, so they will support candidates from some particular political side. So I think that, yes, right now, I guess the tech companies have this power to decide who runs countries, but I don’t think they’re necessarily going to have that if they don’t also have the political in terms of the machines of the states behind them, if that makes sense. No, I know that’s, I think we are definitely, they are not fully, they haven’t really used their monetary power, so to speak. So in the end, when you look back into history and you look into winners and losers of big wars, including the Second World War, the First World War, and lots of other conflicts before that, you usually see that the country with the biggest economic power, with the biggest ability to innovate, to create new weapons, but also just to support their own supply lines, to support their own population during a crisis, during a time of war. This is usually the country that wins a war, even if, and the outlook, it looks terrible for that country, it looks like they’re going to lose, say, the Israel’s conflict, right? There seems to be, they only have one hundredth of the army, they have literally nothing that would indicate that they would win a war, and they win most of their wars. And when you have these big corporations literally going to war, right? Because there’s so much money, they produce, they produce so much value right now, and it is, there’s a real value, right? We pay them indirectly, but it seems free, but we give them our opinions, we give them a lot of data, we make, we create content, they market. What I feel is like, unless there’s a big catalyst and things change quite a bit, we have this software is not just, is literally eating the world in terms of political institutions, in terms of political governments, because they have the economic power, right? In the end, they’re going to decide which way we’re going to go, and there isn’t so much we can do, unless this trend eventually changes, right? And there’s new companies coming around, or we’re going to see a bigger explosion of, say, foreign power like China, right? But besides this, I think we are on this trajectory, and we just have to wait it out. Yeah, that’s a good point in terms of the money. I guess we’ll just find out. Yeah, they can just buy us, so to speak. I’m not even sure that’s a bad thing, because when you think about from an entrepreneurial perspective, you want to be where the money is, right? Or you want to be an investor, you want to be where the money is flowing, where you’re going to see a lot of future profits. Obviously, we sometimes hate mania, some crypto might be one of those or not, I’m curious on your views there. But you want to be where a lot of people expect future cash flows, and it seems like big tech is where people expect these big cash flows. We see this during the last 12 months, their market cap has gone up quite a bit. Yeah, I think I’m not understanding if you’re asking me a question, like in terms of my opinion on something. Not yet. Okay, not yet. So this is kind of my overarching theory that we are having a battle on social medium and in the daily news, so to speak, that it’s not the real battle. So people look at the wrong plane of where the actual battle is being fought. And I know you’re very vocal, and you express a lot of opinions. Most people are not allowed or not willing to express. You criticize BLM, Black Lives Matters, something that’s basically not allowed in public discourse. You are a strong proponent of crypto. What I feel is like we have these, and I think you spoke about that before, we have these things that are being framed as problems right now, right, in political discourse that actually make no real difference. Maybe that’s just me, because I’m too, I don’t know, too spaced out in my ivory tower. But I think the real problem is somewhere else. And we do everything we can to entertain people, might we give them these topics so they can fight about them. But actually, they make no difference, because there’s much bigger forces at play, and nobody really wants to look at them. I don’t know if we could change them, but nobody wants to look at them. But what are the bigger forces of play that you’re referring to? So one is the technological progress, right? We see this, this is the singularity coming, you know, where Kurzweil says. So we have this enormous amount of new technology coming online, and AI is now doubling every two months. So instead of 18 months, where Kurzweil’s thesis is we double technology’s power, processing power, storage power every 18 months, and AI is now down to two months. So in the singularity, by this, he describes this disability to have something that kind of looks like artificial general intelligence. And this is this, and you know, that goes back to social media. We have those, these algorithms, algorithms out there, they can just change by whatever they distribute within the social graph, so to speak. So we have this technology that’s so cheap, that kind of can resemble the mind of a human being. And it can do a lot of tasks that a human being can do. And this is a major societal challenge, and I think it’s a positive thing in the end, but I mean, we are going through this impact. And we have this huge shift in economic, economic power to a few tech companies, maybe a few dozen. I mean, it’s not just the fangs. And those are on a, on this trajectory will change the world. And I don’t know, I feel like people, people are looking at this, but it’s people are not, they’re not seeing that impact. Well, maybe that’s just me and people know that already and say, okay, this is the boring, I need some entertainment. And I heard you talking, this is my question for you. You know, sometimes I feel like this race war that we have, it’s just this, it’s like an entertaining thing that we, that people throw out there to just stir up some conflict and keep people busy. Ah, I think what you just made a lot of sense. Do I think that this race war stuff, or race baiting, or racecraft, depending on what term you want to use, is there to distract people? So that major force you’re talking about in terms of the technology growing really rapidly and power being shifted towards tech, the people who run technology, I agree that that is occurring. I also agree that it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I don’t know. Okay. So I definitely think that that people who, I don’t know what the, what the percentages of people who participate in these conversations about, say, race, because they genuinely, not even believe in them, but are, but are genuinely caught up in them. But I say genuinely believe in them. I mean, like, they could just be the, the virtue signaling, but they’re just caught up in that conversation versus the people who might be using it as a tool to manipulate the emotions of people and the interactions that people have with each other. And yeah, it’s not just race. It’s like, it just seems like it’s division all the way down. There’s like between the sexes. I guess that’s the only other major one, I would say, along with race. I definitely feel like there’s like this constant pumping of information out there that is meant to sow division and have people arguing. I agree that that is true. But I don’t know if it’s, if it’s a plan from people who are higher up somewhere, or if it’s just, this is what humans do, because these are weaknesses that we have in terms of being tribalistic in these ways. So I guess what I’m saying is I, I don’t know, but I definitely agree that the force is the force of like, there’s a background shift that’s happening at the same time. And that people are more focused on the, the like race tribalism stuff than that technological shift that’s happening. Like I’m very aware of it. And there are lots of people are very aware of it that I interact with, but like definitely the general population on isn’t thinking about it, except like when like at a very surface level, like, oh, Bitcoin, Bitcoin exists, everyone’s talking about it, like, you know, or AI or like as like buzzwords, but like not like deeply understanding. It’s really tough for people, you know, those are complicated topics. And I mean, I have the sense that nobody wants to tell the truth. I’ve just talked about this is divide and conquer is certainly to it. And it’s, it’s gotten so cheap. Let’s put it this way and propaganda has gotten so cheap. If you would pull it off, it’s so much cheaper to do it now than say 20 years ago or 30 years ago. And that’s what I’m trying to say. I don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist completely. Probably I am, but I don’t want to be, I don’t want to, well, it’s, it’s kind of, I love to hear more about because, you know, love conspiracy theories eventually turn out to be true. But some of them are just that, right? So it’s just a thesis, just a term for a thesis. If, if you feel like this isn’t, what do you think made the world so crazy? What do you feel? Why do we have this division? And why does it happen in a relatively compressed time span? And I was talking to Aaron a couple of podcasts ago, and we kind of traced it back to the Facebook algorithm change. That’s kind of my gut feeling. You know, I don’t know if you remember 2014, Facebook really went from, we, we, we give you access to, we show you basically what you follow. Like kind of like Twitter still operates to an extent. And like Instagram works, right? And then one day they decided, no, you can have 100 million followers, but they won’t see your posts anymore. We only show them engage, engaging posts, right? But be decide what’s engaging, not you. So Facebook, and I think that was well intended, tried to make it better content out of this ginormous amount of spam that they receive. And they said, okay, we give you only the stuff that’s probably of interest to you. But in that turn, you know, they, they assumed the power of information. And then suddenly everyone went crazy. And I think it was 2000 at late 2014, beginning of 2015, there was pre Trump, and people really started to be extremely divisive. So we felt this is like kind of an algorithm. It’s this big social experiment that we are in. And that was our best theory we come up with. I don’t know what, what do you think? What do you think is this, this theory? What is your theory why everyone went so crazy the last five years? I definitely think that humans are evolved to be interacting with each other in person. And so when we’re having heated debates online, obviously, people get heated in debate have always gotten heated to the point of killing each other over ideas. So part of me wonders if, if it, if it can be said that people are more divisive, because maybe people have always been, but maybe the scale is greater now because it’s happening online. I guess I would agree that technology has influenced human interaction, like with the algorithms and stuff. And it plays off of, it plays on negative aspects of human nature, because, you know, people respond really well to fair. And so like the way that media works in terms of what’s engaging is going to be stuff that makes you like fair and enemy, like that, that’s going to be the most, you know, engaging stuff. There’s also like puppies and kids, those tend to be like really engaging as well. But, but the, but the, I think the fair is a bit stronger. So yeah, I guess my theory would be kind of what you just said. And like also the thesis of, well, the first half of it of the, the documentary, the social dilemma, I think that it’s just human nature being put in an environment that makes people focus on things that end up causing divisiveness and stuff, because that’s just how people are and what they, what they respond to. And so that’s why people start to go crazy. So like people who weren’t your enemy eight years ago are like now the enemy, because of like, what seems engaging to people and then having those ideas put into your brain. And also because it’s all happening online. Because so it’s like, you’re not arguing or debating with people. Like, you know, like, you really, really, really, really, really do not interact with someone online the way that you do in person. Like you won’t say the same things to their face that you will. And like, people just, people just aren’t like that. Like, because you can get punched in the face. Like that, that would happen. So like, there’s a lot more sizing up of other things going on than just like the power of your words. And when that’s not there, and again, like in terms of the like fair based brain and what’s engaging, that I think that caused people to go a bit crazy. I know you didn’t ask me this, but I’m not sure what the solution to that problem is. I don’t know if people’s brains will catch up. I, this is something I actually wanted to mention earlier when you’re talking about the power that tech companies have and it not necessarily being bad. This is like, kind of like, kind of from a meta level, and it might sound super dismissive. But I do think that ultimately, like what’s really, really, really important is like, like people’s morals and like them deciding to, to like be, be better people. And I mean, maybe that is very, very naive, but I don’t really see how else it could change. Because if I’m looking online and I’m reading a post about how, I don’t know, Donald Trump is really, really awful or, I don’t know. I haven’t seen such a post in a long time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I’m, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. No, I mean, I think we all agree that kind of our limbic brain is constantly being manipulated. And I think it’s wearing off a little now. There was Donald Trump was a big driver for this and was COVID. And there’s a bunch of others that kind of come along. The end of the world is near. And eventually get tired of this. I mean, he can only be scared for so long, right? Then it needs to be at least a new topic to be scared or to be, to be, to address the limbic brain. So I think this is a good part. And I think I’m very happy about that. I, I don’t know if you, you, you listen to Jordan Peterson, but he said, and he, he talked about Nazism in Germany. And obviously that’s a big topic for me since I grew up there. And a lot of family is there. One of the things he said, from a psychological view, to explain what happened in Germany is he said that might be an outgrowth of empathy. So empathy is, is we associated with, we feel like other people feel, right? So this is a good thing, right? So we can, we can put ourselves on someone else’s mind and see how they see the world. And I think this is a wonderful thing. And how can empathy be, be a negative thing? Well, what it does is it kind of, it does a black and white or can do a black and white association, so to speak, a negative positive. Who’s going to be my in group and who’s going to be my out group? And you, you, once you make this determination, and that’s very much on an emotional level, once you make this determination, there is no, there’s no nuance. There’s, there’s nothing in between you, literally fighting off people that, that are just regular people. But for some reason you decided without talking to them, without interacting with them, it’s kind of like the chimpanzee mother, right? Who goes out there and finds there’s some other chimpanzees from another tribe, you’re going to kill them off irrespective of what’s actually going on. And he said that might be something that psychologists associate with empathy. So if empathy gets too big, and it’s too much of a driver and doesn’t, doesn’t get a little bit of rationalism and doesn’t get any bit of neocortex thrown in, that’s where he said, that’s where Nazism started. And maybe we will, this is similar to the face we are in yet, we are in right now, right? But we actually, we have this desire to destroy the other side. We destroy liberals, we destroy conservatives, we, we are on the wrong side of history. There’s all these big, big words that, that people use to, instead of advancing a solution really, they are advancing, let’s destroy the other side. And this is odd, right? Those are really smart people. They’re high IQs, and they are like, okay, all you do, like I see this with Ben Shapiro, he’s a very smart person, but he, he is company. And I think that’s, he has to build a show that makes money, right? It’s all about destroying the other side. And I’m like, this is really odd. It shouldn’t be like that. Yeah, I, I totally agree with what you’re saying. I want to query you. I do listen, or have listened to Jordan Peterson, but I don’t know that particular thing you were just talking about how exactly, in terms of the specific context of the rise of Nazism in Germany, did this, I guess, empathy for your in group, turning to wanting to destroy the, if you don’t mind briefly. And I, I agreed with basically what you just said. Yeah, it’s, it’s part of his psychology lectures. I actually liked them the most. They, I think he did a couple of them. He taped a couple of them. I think he has a 2015 and 2017 version of it. I only like, I only listened to one of them. I don’t really know about the other one. I think it’s the prior one he did earlier. And that’s kind of an offhand comment. It’s not, it’s maybe a 10 minute part of that psychology lecture that I liked the most. I actually feel he, his early content is, is the one I could learn most from. For me, it’s, it’s the best that he did 2015, 2016. I don’t actually know why maybe become, he became more partial or become more in the limelight. I don’t know what it is, but I could take the most value from those. You’ve been very controversial with your criticism of BLM. The word controversial is, isn’t it, is by itself controversial. How did you arrive there? What do you like about BLM and what, what do you not like about it? No one has ever asked me, what do I like about BLM? The only thing, like the only thing that I found positive about BLM is the fact that people started accounting for police deaths caused by police. So they started actually tracking that properly. That was because of BLM. That’s like the only thing that I like thought of that’s been positive about them. The reason why, the way that I came about having my opinion. I think there’s something, there’s something really positive. I think it’s more circumstantial, though, is that it got people out of being isolated at home, right? It got them on the street in June or July and some, or some or many of those protests turned violent, but still it got people out and, and you know, there was a way to a sense of community that most people that simply had lost, right? And everyone was just stuck at home and hard locked down in a lot of states like say California. We’ve been kind of like this for 12 months. And I thought that’s a really positive thing. I haven’t thought about that, but I feel like you could, yeah, I guess you could say that that is a positive thing. I mean, yeah, you could say that I actually have two friends, two American friends who are black, if that matters, who, who are in Billion protests, who are aware of my views of really, really not liking Billion. They still talk to you? Yeah. And that’s really important to note because I really think it makes a difference that they’re Jamaican. So like there is not the same kind of like I am going to excommunicate you from my life. Okay, I don’t get that sense in, I mean, I haven’t lived there in a while, but like I don’t get that sense from from Jamaican people like that. People just aren’t like that, you know, in the same way, even though they, you know, might disagree with you. But I wanted to explain the reason why I got my opinions from about BLM was I heard about it. And then I just did research. But that’s it. I just like I went to their websites, I looked at it. I there were things I didn’t like, you know, their their their focus on basically it was like intersectional feminism when like their cause was about men, black men being like murdered by cops. And there was like the whole kind of lie about the unarmed aspect. And when it was usually that these people were criminals, and like the police had a reason to shoot them. And then there’s also the whole statistical significance where it’s like, it’s like 1000 deaths overall, and then like 15 or something actually unarmed in terms of police killing people. And then there’s also the focus on only black lives of making it like police brutality a black issue when it’s like I don’t think it is. So it was just looking into it and being like this is this doesn’t make any sense. I don’t like it. That’s just how I got my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think any rational observer on that would probably share your opinion. What what I find interesting do, and that’s that’s what what I what I’m trying to to discover myself, this became very popular, right? It became became I don’t know how many people were on the streets, 20 million people maybe over the course of two months. So there was a lot of people who actually went through the trouble of going out there and we were scared about COVID, you know, that’s the other hand of being out there in a community. This was an amazing outburst of public opinion and public discontent. I feel there was a lot of discontent about the general economic situation in it too. And there’s there’s been very few opportunities in the last 20 years for young people. And obviously, well, it spread out through through the whole population. What I felt is, it’s, if if you see this this public, and I think a lot of a lot of politicians saw it the same way they said, well, this is really big. I have to attach myself to it, right? I cannot be rational. I give up being rational because I’m a politician. I’m basically a paid actor. I kind of have to accumulate what other people think, and then I have to replay it and make it sound great, right? They all just it few only few politicians just kept being rational. I felt them. Maybe that’s that’s their job. But it really resonated with society. Why do you think that is? So will we both agree probably that a lot of what’s on their website, what’s on the manifesto, right? Let’s go let’s go back to Karl Marx. It’s a very lefting organization. It just doesn’t work in an economic sense, but it also is not a good incentive book for a wider population. It works in certain areas and certain communities can pull it off. But long term, usually these extreme lefting ideas are, let’s say the word problematic. But why do you think it caught on so much? It was definitely a huge movement. I guess the same reason left being causes always catch on. Like people, well, again, there’s the discontent, but BLM was a movement before the recent economic stuff. And just by the way, I think it’s awful that politicians like use negative events in order to, as you said, like attach themselves to issues going on. And it’s like so many people are losing their jobs, like businesses closing, people dying, family members, usually older ones dying. So people are not doing very well. And then turning that, amplifying, like using political causes to like get people out there to take out their feelings. I think that’s not a great thing. I wouldn’t just blame it on the population. Like it’s on the politicians is also the population like going along with it. But that’s a, that’s a tangent. I actually forgot your question. Sorry. I started seeing something else. No, no, I’m like, if we all agree, and I think most people that are rational or try to be a little rational, right, they forget their emotions for a moment, they would say no, this is a little crazy. But irrespective, there were tons of people on the streets. And this is interesting, right? If you, I always think, and this relates to this a lot, I always feel like it’s time for a new religion. And a lot of people say, oh, QAnon is a new religion. But maybe it’s something new, a new cult, right? So I always felt like people, they’re trying to find the sense of community in a higher purpose. And this was really, this is a shot in the arm would be a lamb. And I don’t know, because there’s other people out there. So I think what people are really looking for is this purpose and sense of community. And they don’t get it in the sense or as much as they used to. Or maybe you’re in the 70s that happened too. A lot of cults just came out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah, I agree. In terms of why it was so popular, it’s like people need to find meaning in their lives. I think what I was initially going to say was focused on the left wing aspect of it in terms of people not liking inequality or being unjust of others. But that’s if you get into the black, white thing, in terms of blaming, focusing on disparate outcomes, that aspect of the BLM stuff. But I also think, yeah, people are looking to attach to find meaning in their lives. Yep, I agree with that. So there’s a religious aspect. Yeah, and I don’t know if you’ve traveled Africa. I’ve been to pretty much most countries in Africa and I spent quite some time there. I always felt the experience in Africa in terms of we have a lot of these neocolonial ideas, right? So it’s a very left wing idea that basically whatever happened in Africa that didn’t go well is basically the fall of the colonial powers and everything that worked is basically the success of the locals. And before I went to Africa, I kind of felt this is the majority opinion. This is the 90% of Africa. But when you go into, I hang out in more entrepreneur communities or when you go in an artist community, that isn’t actually true. Most of Africa is very entrepreneurial, it’s very forward looking, extremely positive. And while those are some undercurrents in society, I think it’s kind of like, there’s things you’re not supposed to talk about, right? Obviously, when you go to another country, you’re not supposed to talk about politics. That’s kind of the first rule, second one, don’t talk about religion. I break them all the time and get in trouble. And what I’m saying is, so Africa has a very much more positive view on their own prospects than we would see it from the outside. No, when you go to Africa, you feel the economic prospects and the people, how optimistic they are is quite different from what you would expect seeing it from the outside, right? A lot of people say, well, there’s a lot of very not successful economies. So this is a very depressed continent, so to speak. A lot of countries are depressed, but that’s the complete opposite experience once you’re actually on the ground. And you see this country to country obviously is very different, but in general, this holds true, especially East and Africa and West and Africa, South Africa. That was really something that amazed me. And I felt this is the, a bit of this is, the economic freedom is maybe not as big because you simply don’t have access to as much money, but the social freedom, the way that the control you have over your own life is so much stronger than what you see in most European countries or what you see in the US. Do you think that’s a thesis to go on or that’s kind of nonsense? Okay. Well, first of all, I’ve never been to Africa. I would really like to go. I’ve, I guess, had African friends, but I’m not close to them anymore, like in college. I think it’s something to go on. I’m not sure exactly what you meant by the last bit in terms of the social aspect, but I think you said Europeans having less of social control. I’m not exactly sure what you meant there. But in terms of the looking from the outside, and then people being more optimistic, I totally agree. Like in Jamaica, which is not Africa, but I think it could make a comparison. It’s a middle income developing country. The last time I looked, it was like 11,000 USD GDP per capita per year, which is more than a lot of African countries, but it’s still not a lot at all. People are definitely happier there. And people are also very entrepreneurial there. And I think that what happens is the intellect is very different from like actual experience. So people look at certain places and analyze them. And just FYI, for the audience, I have an article and a video about Jamaica’s economy, where I talk about this idea, which I did learn in school in Jamaica, by the way, and have rejected since then. The theory of me a colonialism and the same thing that you just got in terms of blaming everything on, like the Jamaica was colonized by first the Spanish and then the British. So there’s like looking through the intellect, but that’s very different from what people actually experience. So I agree with that part of what you’re saying, even though I’ve never been to Africa, but we’re going from my experience elsewhere. I’ve also been to Brazil and Nicaragua. And people are entrepreneurial and they’re just not worried about the same things in the same ways. Obviously, people care a lot about money. And like obviously, humans always care about status, but it’s just it’s it can’t really be compared to you. You can’t understand something from the outside. You actually can’t. You have to experience it. Yeah. Yeah, I think I feel our economic value being we it comes at the price of much higher anxiety that we have to go through every day. And that’s I think a sign of times we have those incredible leverage, but the individual responsibility to do the right thing, whatever that is right in that moment economically or morally is the responsibility is shot up so much that it gives us crazy anxiety and to release that we go on Twitter and I don’t know, debunk someone. We really mean to someone. I think I’m just a joke. I think I’m just a joke. It gives a lot of anxiety. And what about Twitter? No, I feel like if you have this high level of anxiety, it’s great to go on Twitter and just demean someone. We really mean on Twitter to someone. I think that helps you. Maybe maybe that’s how these things are connected because anxiety is off the charts for most people and maybe understandably, understandably. I know we don’t have a ton of time left. I wanted to learn more about how you you take your political views and the views that you have on society. How do they inspire your art? Do you and a lot of artists, you know, they know a lot about religion. They take a lot of inspiration from from the metaphysical and bring it into their art. How does that work for you? I actually think it’s the other way around. So I actually have been making art even though I haven’t been sharing it publicly for maybe like two years now. But I think my openness and creativity in terms of my art really influences my politics because I’m very open to hearing different ideas and thinking time to do research and things don’t offend me as much as other people. I think because of like my my personality in terms of like openness, which is really highly associated with creativity. My art is never political. I there’s nothing wrong with political art, but something that definitely makes it difficult for me in terms of the professional art world. So not like actual individual people being interested in my art because that’s always there. But if I wanted to like go to a program or something that they always make art very political, like you have to be making some statement that it can’t just be about the aesthetics or even the spirituality. You know, it’s like that that Nobel Laureate poet who did this read a poem for the inauguration thing. I don’t know her name. It’s like that’s what art is a lot of times and my art is not like that at all. It’s it’s usually personal. I usually never explain it. It’s often something kind of spiritual or metaphysical or it’s focused on like aesthetics. So I don’t think that that my politics influence my art, but I do think that my art influences my politics in two ways. One, what I just said in terms of being open, but also in terms of connecting me with myself. And so I don’t know, I think that just influences everything you do in life. So yeah, when when you talk about breaking into and making a political statement that’s necessary, I know it’s really difficult for artists to to break into that into galleries and to an avenue to sell their work. It’s and it seems to be almost impossible. Like I talked to a friend who works with a bunch of galleries in New York City and she basically said you need to be at it for 20 years and just you. I mean, there isn’t much you can do your being discovered. So for you as an art entrepreneur, it can be very stressful to say the least, but almost impossible to get into that spot. And once you’re there, you know, you sell it’s almost like LA like Hollywood, what you sell for a couple million dollars, your artwork, because someone famous, a curator discovered you and you go to a bunch of museums and then suddenly you’re worth a couple of millions. As an artist and as an entrepreneur in that field, well, what are what are is there a middle ground where you can sell your art in between? Was it really that difficult to basically make no money until you make a ton of money? Well, I sell my art, but not a lot, but that’s because I don’t put more effort into it. But I decided to not focus on it, which is why I said I’m not reading public anymore. But I get paid to do commissions for people because they they like my art. It’s sometimes it’s it’s mostly abstract stuff. But sometimes it’s portraits. Actually, people want to see my art a lot more than I share it and like want me to go in that direction. Like a lot of people once they see my art, they’re like, Oh my God. But I distinctly don’t want to go down that path of making it my career because at least right now, or that’s not true. I don’t want to make it like something I have to live on because like I just don’t want art to be that to me. So you mentioned earlier, I don’t know if it was when after we started talking that I’m very much an artist. And I am in the sense of like, my art is like very profound. And so like, I almost don’t want to sully it with like making it about making money and stuff. So I will sell my prints. And I will do commissions for people who asked me for it. But like, I’m never making art for other people. It’s always like for myself. Well, if I’m not being paid, it’s always for myself. So there is a way to make money. And it’s the hard way. It’s you learn how to provide a service to people. You have to learn customer service, you have to learn the details of like getting the materials, shipping it to the customers. I mean, like, actually, this is the last one I’m going to do for a while. I just turned it off. I just said I’m no longer accepting any commissions. But I’m doing this made order painting. That’s like, I use this company called Ginny canvas, that’s absolutely amazing, because they make it so that you can they call they have these things called collapsible canvases. So it’s like it folds and rolls. And so you can ship really, really large artwork that way. But it uses like Velcro. So the way the reason I’m saying this is because this is like what people actually want like ordinary people, like for their homes to decorate it. But I feel like that wouldn’t fly in a gallery, because it’s like, it’s not like culture to have like a collapsible canvas that like has Velcro on the back. So I guess what I’m trying to say is like, it’s a very different world. So you can be making art for like regular people if you want. And it’s just like any other business that I guess that’s that’s what I’m saying. And I mean, that these I do for a few hundred dollars. So it’s not the same thing as like selling for a few thousand dollars. I mean, way more than that with a gallery. I do have some pieces that are again, this is this is personal pieces. So like, I’m not selling those unless it’s like five thousand seven thousand or something. They’re not on sale. But if I ever sell them, they’re going to start at some price really high like that. But that is different from the art that I make for like people. That’s I mean, they could always buy a print of the other stuff. But yeah, I hope that answers your question. It does. It does. And you know, this market certainly doesn’t get as much attention. I feel this is kind of a no volume. People say, oh, you have to go to Vietnam to find people who who make art for you. And you know, that’s often more perceptual problem. It is I think a market like where you literally know what you want and someone just copies it. But that’s kind of boring. And anyways, you probably have accepted Bitcoin in 2017 for your first artwork. And now you’re really rich. I know you’re a big component of Bitcoin. Well, a lot of people accept the Bitcoin by accident. I actually had a friend who was really into the early trading with Mt. Gox. So then you remember that. And he lost a lot of money in 2013. I actually wasn’t around then, but I do know of Mt. Gox, but I wasn’t there. He literally had $5,000 invested in Bitcoin. Half of them went away right with Mt. Gox. But the other two and a half thousand are now worth enough money to live on. So he’s a big fan of Bitcoin, obviously. So how did you get into Bitcoin? It’s just because you like it as a libertarian project and we are independent of what’s going on in DC and then the other money printing. Or how did you find your connection? Well, I had just heard about it on a podcast and then I bought some. Well, I bought one. But then I sold it. I bought it when it was like $200, $300. But I sold it for to pay by rent when I was in college. And then I didn’t get back into it again until early mid 2017. So I haven’t been around that long. I mean, I’ve known about it before a lot of people, but I haven’t like reinvested it that long. And then I was working with a crypto company. So I’ve been paid in crypto. And I’ve definitely been in that world. Like I’ve gone to conferences and I really understand it pretty deeply. I have a website where I explain like the mechanics of blockchain. I definitely like the decentralized aspects, the people being able to use a money supply that has integrity and that’s not just being manipulated by the government and where they can like safely store value, the value of like their hard earned money. I definitely like that aspect. I also have a bit of a cypherpunk mindset in terms of creating technology in order to have social change in the world versus relying on laws. So I am a bit edgy in that way. Like I think that’s important. I don’t know if Bitcoin itself is always going to have that aspect because it is like transparent, like it’s not private, which I think is really important. But I think it’s a good start and just simply in terms of the integrity of the money supply and it not being inflated whenever the government feels like it, like that’s very, very important. I totally see the attraction to it. I always feel like the promise that it’s going to be a restricted money supply. A lot of other coins have gone the other way, right? They came out with this and said, okay, this is a total amount of coins. And then they suddenly changed their opinion. I know the Bitcoin community has been more strict, but I feel like this could change tomorrow. So I’m always a little doubtful. That doesn’t mean I’m still invested in Bitcoin, but I always feel like this could change tomorrow. And then someone could come along and say, oh, Bitcoin access, it’s not a good idea. Anyways, there’s only criminals. And by the way, if you have Bitcoin, that’s illegal, right? It’s a crime. And this could happen overnight. So I always feel there’s huge ways for the government, if they really would have trouble with Bitcoin, to just get rid of Bitcoin in a heartbeat. And nobody can do much about it. I mean, we can all move to the Ukraine or Russia, but I don’t know if that’s such a great option. I actually don’t think they can. And I don’t think they can even more than I used to. First of all, they could make it fringe, but they can’t get rid of it. So I used to think that. But now, with what’s been happening this year, with PayPal adopters and Elon Musk and all that stuff, I don’t even think they could make it fringe now. So I don’t think they could get rid of it. In terms of the developers deciding to make it change the rules of the technology in terms of stopping at 21 million Bitcoin and having a fixed supply, I think it’s not likely. But I guess it’s possible because it’s open source. It is developed open source. There’s a lightning network, which is not, that’s a whole debate about how it’s controlled by a private corporation, but Bitcoin itself, I think it’s not likely because of its open source nature that it would end up being turned into another government fiat money in terms of controlling the supply, inflating the supply in that way. But yeah, I guess it’s kind of possible for developers to do that. So when you said that earlier, that you think laws and policies don’t matter as much, right? What do you mean by that? I had this this thesis just as an intro for you before you get to answer, and this is why I always get trouble for my long intros. But I had this thesis with Hivey Abuzo, and she is a really an expert on the Middle East. And I said, you know, really the policies, the individual policies of who we’re going to like in the Middle East, who we don’t like, and that changes every four years. Anyways, you know, these policies make no big impact. If we put someone on the embargo list, they just trade with Russia. If we don’t give them money, they get the money from China. So the actual policies don’t matter so much. And things are, they’re on a different trajectory. You don’t have to worry so much about it. She was very vocal about it. Is that something similar that you think, or you have a very different approach to that, to how laws shape something? Yeah, I think laws, I wouldn’t say they don’t matter at all. But I do agree. Like I was talking about the cyberpunk thing in terms of you can create technology that is outside of the law, which is actually what I think is happening with the tech companies, which is what we’re talking about earlier. So the technology can provide power that the law might not provide, like not want to give, but like the technology, or the people who run the technology have it anyway. So I think it’s a matter of degree. So for example, there’s the facial recognition technology, which I don’t like, but the guy who I forget his name, I think it was Claire V, technology that I can’t remember, who started it, he was recorded in an interview saying that this was going to happen anyway. Anyway, this technology is going to be made anyway. Why not make it? And so the government has some ability to not use it. I mean, it’s supposed to the government that is using it, like police agencies or, you know, cameras on the streets or something. So there are cases where the government has some degree of control over how much that technology can be used, but it depends on the technology. So that works a bit more with something that’s public, where you can like possibly, I mean, maybe they’ll make cameras really, really small so people can’t tell, but you can see when like cameras being used, that’s different from someone running a node for a cryptocurrency in their home. So police would have to like be raiding people’s houses, especially yes, that can happen, but it’s like harder to keep track of. So I think I don’t really know like technology depends on the technology, whether or not it can be controlled by by laws. Yeah, my favorite example is, and it’s obviously not universal, I understand that. But think about the what happened in Eastern Europe, literally out of nowhere. And with full government control of the media, it was 100% controlled of government controlled elections, government controlled economy. Literally, when you go to the gas station was controlled, there was there was no restaurants, for instance, like everything was controlled by the government for particular reasons, they wanted to make sure you work in your most productive way from their point of view in the more most land in this way. But then overnight, literally in a country of 17 million in Eastern Germany, 13 million around the street and said, Okay, we have to get rid of this. And that happened. And then two weeks later, it was gone. And that was the end of story, right? So things can shift a lot if people get make up their mind and on the right side of history, I don’t know why I should use this. But and that’s what I’m trying to say with the policies, right? So you can nudge around and I think you’re expressing something similar. There is the you can nudge around the edges a little bit. And we we what eventually only restricts us is what creates a long term survival edge. And that’s when we go back to the Old Testament, right? So it created a long term survival edge, I assume, because the culture is still around, right, and we adopted it now in Christianity, and then Islam, a lot of it. If the actual policies that you make, we don’t have to argue too much about it, because these things will work themselves out anyways, and the right solution will be made. Even the Soviet Union eventually fell apart, right? And that was, again, one of Jordan Peterson’s big themes. He said, you know, is there something really about the Soviet Union? And he started his research in the early 80s, that we feel, not just from an ideological viewpoint, but from, you know, core humanity viewpoint is something that will fall apart. And, you know, he was right. And the Soviet Union was wrong, because then you sit on the other side of that, right? You sit in the Soviet Union, and you you have a very different viewpoint of the world. And you’re like, well, the next law really matters, right? But it didn’t. Well, what mattered was big forces that were really had nothing to do with what people actually talked about most of the time. Yeah, I mean, to me, that that has to do with, you know, like, like he said, people made up their minds. So there’s like a cultural thing, and like, what, what people as a collective end up deciding. Yeah. So the collective is always right. Would you agree with that statement? No, no, I would not. But they do have power. Sure. Well, I just want to let people know that I’m doing a series on the Gulag Archipelago, due to having heard Jordan Peterson mentioned eight years ago, and then finally having gotten around to it. And I go through just each chapter of each volume. I know about halfway right now. Yeah, how did you like it so far? I read I really like it. And it’s depressing. I think that’s a it’s it’s very insightful. It’s definitely worth, worth a read. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. And it drowns you in all these historical details. And I was many times I kind of gave up and I said, I can’t read anymore, because there’s so many, you know, addicts and changes. And especially the first part, I’m like, this is how is this relevant? But he didn’t point he’s making right, he’s just convincing you. And that was the whole point that that had really happened. He didn’t just make it up. So he went down into every little nudge in detail. And then I think he has his enormous insight. I don’t know how he got there. You know, he started out as a very convinced socialist. Alexander Social needs him. And then he created these these incredible psychological insights just by being in prison. So and that’s one argument. I don’t know if you agree with this, that’s a little maybe a little too abstract. But I always feel a little bit of oppression is actually a good thing, because it kind of forces you to you don’t want to be killed on the spot. That’s obviously a problem, you know, as a group or as an individual, that’s a big problem. But a little bit of oppression is good, because it’s kind of what forces you to, to, you know, focus on the things that really matter and that give you an edge against everyone else. So I think we’re all oppressed by nature. But some people are more oppressed than others. And we oppress ourselves, you know, compared via oppressive people that we don’t like people that we don’t know. But maybe a little bit of oppression is actually good, because I feel Alexander Social needs him wouldn’t be such a great author and and individual if he wouldn’t have been in prison. Yeah, that’s funny, because I mean, this thing that I am writing, I picked out a quote from the Gullag Archipelago by Alexander Social needs him, where he was talking specifically about that and about Russian literature. And how for the first time, because of the Gullag camps, Gullag camp system, the people who had the knowledge, like education to write could actually experience and understand, like, all the strategies of society were together versus them being apart. So they could actually write about each other without either being like to envious, or as in if you’re the lower right about the upper, or actually understanding the experience if you’re like the upper trying to write about the lower. And it was just like, that’s the only way you can actually produce good arts and when there’s both actual understanding and then the skill set and the time to write about it. Yeah, it’s a it’s a it’s a tricky book to read. And what I realized is that he had so much more insight into social life. It’s very hard to find that even, you know, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, he describes it in a in a non prose, in a non fictional setting. And I really, I can’t make up my mind how he got there, right? He seems such like a such an average person in the beginning. And he comes to this greatness of deeper insight into psychology, into economics, that you wouldn’t associate with someone who just was imprisoned, right? So his personal growth is stunning. I think it’s one in a generation. Yeah. You still have a couple minutes left. How busy are you? I was going to say I was going to mention the time, but I didn’t want to mention it. So I would like to end. There’s one more thing you could answer very quickly. Oh, I wanted to ask you about Amazon Prime. How did you make that happen? I saw you are wearing Amazon Prime for a while. Which one? The JTOL or the Crypto Ramble? The Crypto Stuff? Yeah, just thinking out loud. I think that’s the one I saw because they don’t accept anyone anymore from what I’ve seen. Oh, they don’t? Are you sure? I think they just have a lot of rules. I don’t know. They just have to put a lot of effort into the content, which is, I mean, I might continue doing it because I’m trying to get help now. So I could probably find the time, but I stopped because I just couldn’t find the time to do it. But I stopped other things too, not just that. I just followed their instructions. I think the website is like Amazon Video Central or something. I can’t remember the exact term. The thing that makes it difficult is that you have to have subtitles and you can’t have any subscribe or anything in there. You have to remove any water marks. I’m sure they put these on Amazon. I’m sure things very, very carefully about its products. So they do that to create a buyer of entry. But I mean, they have some informal stuff on there. So I didn’t think my content was out of place. It’s just that it takes a lot of work. Yeah, 2018, they stopped accepting anything that looks like a podcast or a VLOG. So maybe just get under the wire or maybe they just, as you say, they just want to reduce the expectation a little. But they do that already. But it’s just that you have to take out anything that makes it sound like that. So for example, I don’t say anything up. You can’t say anything about, I can’t take out anything that says follow me or check out this video. But that’s just in their rules. I’m not sure. I actually don’t remember when exactly I was uploading that stuff. But I mean, I didn’t get any email that’s like, you know, you can’t do anything anymore. Because I’ve seen, because they have documentary series where it’s just people with their cameras that are like, you know, like a dude hunting or something like that. So I don’t know exactly. I’m not sure if it’s not any VLOG or if it’s just like the format that you do it in. I don’t know if they’ve changed that, but it was just like, you had to just cut out certain things that made it like, obviously, like internet VLOG. So that’s good news. I’ll check that again. But they were really anti nonfiction. So anything that’s not, that’s nonfiction. They were not, they gave you like 15 disclaimers. I’ll say we won’t accept it. So I kind of gave up. Maybe that’s just what they wanted. Maybe it changed since I was looking at it. I don’t know. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s good news. I’ll try again. That seems like a great avenue. Yeah, I mean, I want to do it again. I don’t expect to get any views there for a while. And then eventually I might get banned. I don’t know. But I’m only going to do major stuff. So I might do like the Gulag thing, like the series that are like really well researched and not so much just me commenting on recent events. That’s what I’m thinking. I might get back to it maybe. Okay. Thanks for doing this, Desiree. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you. I blushed how to pronounce your name. That’s why I don’t want to say it wrong. But thank you. Give it, give it your best shot. Torsten. Yes, you got it. Yes. It’s originally it’s from the North mythology, right? The store. But then I’ve got a different ending in German. They kind of like that more. I don’t know why. That’s the short history of it. Yeah. So I have some North mythology and the Jewish last name. That’s my person. Okay. Okay. Desiree, thanks for taking the time. We do make some cuts, but you know, 99% of the conversation will survive it, hopefully. Okay. So I just want to let people know that they can find me at justthinkingoutlaw.tv and my YouTube at youtube.com says just thinking out loud. Basically, just search for that. I’m also on Twitter and I’m on GAB and I’m on library and on mines. And that’s it. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. Bye.