Arnaud Collery (Happiness, Motivation, the life of a modern polymath)
In this episode of the Judgment Call Podcast Arnaud Collery and I talk about:
- 00:01:47 How Arnaud already had (full) careers as a leadership coach, inspirational speaker, actor, comedian, investment banker and philosopher at his young age.
- 00:10:26 Why ‘walking between worlds’ is such a cumbersome endeavor.
- 00:17:01 Why Europeans treat risk taking so much different than the US?
- 00:21:14 How Arnauld defines happiness?
- 00:28:32 Do we need traumatic experiences in our life to find our purpose?
- 00:36:01 Why some of most the most dangerous and violent regions of the world also bring out the most joy in people?
- 00:42:45 Is there a ‘happiness gene’?
- 00:49:01 Why we all want to be in ‘harmony with nature’? How society deals with a much newly customized ways of life and role models.
- 01:00:01 How Arnauld has hacked Hollywood.
- 01:25:01 How to spark motivation in people? How should we motivate our children?
- 01:36:29 What Arnauld thinks about extreme sports.
You can watch this episode on Youtube – Arnaud Collery (Happiness, Motivation, the life of a modern polymath).
Welcome to the Judgment Call Podcast, a podcast where I bring together some of the most curious minds on the planet. Risk takers, adventurers, travelers, investors, entrepreneurs and simply mindbogglers. To find all episodes of this show, simply go to Spotify, iTunes or YouTube or go to our website judgmentcallpodcast.com. If you like this show, please consider leaving a review on iTunes or subscribe to us on YouTube. This episode of the Judgment Call Podcast is sponsored by Mighty Travels Premium. Full disclosure, this is my business. We do at Mighty Travels Premium is to find the airfare deals that you really want. Thousands of subscribers have saved up to 95% in the airfare. Those include $150 round trip tickets to Hawaii for many cities in the US or $600 life let tickets in business class from the US to Asia or $100 business class life let tickets from Africa round trip all the way to Asia. In case you didn’t know, about half the world is open for business again and accepts travelers. Most of those countries are in South America, Africa and Eastern Europe. To try out Mighty Travels Premium, go to mightytravels.com slash MTP or if that’s too many letters for you, simply go to MTP, the number four and the letter U dot com to sign up for your 30 day free trial. So Arno, you’ve been involved in pretty much anything I can think of that sounds like a lot of fun. You’ve been in office in the army, maybe not so much fun, but then you’ve been an investment banker, you’ve been an entrepreneur, you’ve been a stand up comedian, you did your stint as a Hollywood actor. You also became an artist and hacker and you are a public speaker of events as a tad event. How did this all happen? Was that something you set out to do when you were eight years old or was it more of an accident? I mean, two things. So I can give you the answer, what I think it was and then what I thought about recently actually. So I always had an endless bounce of energy and I wanted to do so much. I remember being four years old and being obsessed with American highways and just the intensity of cars and I remember being nine years old nine, the first time a friend of mine started learning Japanese and basically that was the first time in my life where I knew I was going to end up in US and I knew I was going to end up in Japan at some point. Doing what was not sure, but I knew at five and eight years old those things. I was going to go to America and then around nine I was going to go to Japan. Now looking back also at my life, I’ve been thinking the last actually a few months, I really think because there was probably a lack of maybe a lack of love when I was a kid, a lack of pushing me in a good direction and a lack of coaching and when you have parents like these, they were pretty much involved with their own lives. You were not obsessed with kids whatsoever. So we were pretty much left to ourselves and either you get bullied at school or you become a victim and you become in your world and just studying, either you get beat up or you become a nerd sometime that goes together or you just dream and dream and dream and I don’t think my life really started before I was 15 years old. So it’s so interesting actually I have not many memories of me before the age of 12, 13, 14 when I really started to do things on my own. I create my first investment club I was 15 years old. It didn’t do well, I mean it did okay, we just you know I had a two, three hundred euro amounts. I was doing a small job and then my friend, each of them had two, three hundred euro amounts and we get 20, 20 of us and we went to a bank and we wanted to start an investment fund and we create a junior club and but before that time, I don’t have any phone memory of my life. I think my life starts to happen when I start to be very proactive. So boundless amount of energy to I guess exist, you know, find my way into this world, thing I matter probably right, thing I want to be someone, I am someone and I’m and also being with finding the flow with people I met. Every time I would meet someone I’m like I get super excited intellectually by so many things and that’s sort of become my journey sometime. As you mentioned, anything that’s sort of approach fun and exciting and joyful I want on it. I’m pretty jealous about some of the things you’ve already accomplished in your life and I always felt I’ve lived a couple of different lives already where even attributes, big changes, major changes in my personality where I feel like well I was that person and there was a similar personality but definitely not the same person in the same body where I’m right now but I feel and maybe this is something is wrong with me, right? So maybe I should help see help for this but I feel like there is not just a small evolutionary or incremental change in my personality. I felt over time I’ve been a different person and I interacted differently with the world which drove me to different things which and I think I can see this with what you’ve done. I was exposed to role models, I was really became focused on something, I really tried that out seed if there was a certain trajectory I could attach myself to. Really ran down this rabbit hole and a couple of years later it was just boring to me, right? I didn’t want to explore it any further and I’m curious was that something that kind of where you grew up when you were young people were kind of expecting of you there were other people like you your friends or you felt like alone with this and you felt like well I’m the only one this whole school or high school who has that problem so to speak. Two things actually happen it seems that because I was a very friendly guy and I’m still a very friendly and a very social guy I need to have a group of friends and people I talk to often so I would get always with a group of people and I would usually influence them to follow my path to do like me so when I became a comedian many people became a comedian when I went to finance many people went to finance now I’m creating a startups a new thing for me some people are thinking of quitting the job and creating a startup but what I found is so I feel when I’m doing something with new people they aren’t bored with me until I change and then again I start over which means it’s so interesting the bulk of people that were with me with the past life I mean the last seven years I was mostly a leadership coach, inspirational event producer, happiness coach but everything was in the realm of coaching that’s it inspirational speaking and now that I want to do a tech startup people don’t get it right my actor friend don’t get it my coach friend don’t get it why are you going to take you a good leadership school coach you’ve got your confidence why are you doing something else and what I’ve seen is every single time I change the bulk of people don’t get it like 80% and I’m like it’s incredible I mean I find a way to get in every time and and they love me when I get in this world why they embrace me the new people right why it’s great you get you have a new energy coming from a very different background welcome to the family until I leave and then why do you leave and I see that every time it happens it’s fascinating how how humans are made but they just people love comfort so much and they love you know just like a tribe I’ve spent some time with tribes in Tanzania with the Maasai and in Ecuador as well I spent three weeks with a tribe there and what I’ve studied a lot how native tribe works it’s fascinating in terms of happiness on average on average right they happier than us yet of course they’re not innovative or creative as us because in order to be innovative you know that you live in San Francisco you need to bring people from different backgrounds and culture and then innovation comes and creativity comes but then for the group to stay joyful actually you don’t want too many people from different backgrounds or you don’t want people to leave which is fascinating enough I mean I was talking to the young girl of this this incubator we are based in now Bodo she’s from Corsica she’s I think she must be like 24 25 and now after a couple years here in France she wants to go back to Corsica right it’s gorgeous I mean Corsica is a beautiful item but I would think you know she would want you know to explore Europe and and do her own thing no it’s so much more you know it’s community based people want to be community based so it goes against the grain to keep changing and every time someone leave the group it’s like I’m betraying them right it’s fascinating yeah for me I keep going yeah yeah I’m I this is an observation that I fully share and what what I find most incredible is that say you you get into a group and the group appreciates this tribe appreciates your prior experience they really appreciate it you’ve been exposed to lots of different narratives you’ve been around the world you’ve been in different startups say to say just or you’ve been in different industries and that’s a great value and I love you for this right for you a diverse experience but here’s the killer if you if you’re part of that new group right and you you hang out with them for quite some time you’re successful or you’re just part of it you’re really friendly like you are yeah but then you go somewhere else and they will say well you can’t change right this is too risky why are you doing this it’s like your parents you’re like you know no no but listen I’m good jumping between different worlds this is what I’m doing but they can’t see that they can’t follow you maybe intellectually sometimes but emotionally as you say they feel it’s betrayal yeah and when I when when I left Europe I grew up in Europe I lived there until I was 20 years old 20 years I and in Germany and my family and the people I know from that time they all feel the sense of betrayal even if I’m still friends with them they feel like man why didn’t you come back why don’t you why didn’t you stay and I’m like you know this this doesn’t fit my personality you know that because otherwise you wouldn’t be friends and they are like creative people you know the intellectuals but they can’t really understand that this is necessary in order to build myself and I think you have an exactly the same issue is that we go from this one time to another and we can speak the language of these other tribes yeah and I don’t know if you listen to Alexander Barty he has this idea of shamans where people certain part of the population four or five percent of the population and wherever you go it goes between the trumps and that’s also true in hunter gather societies where a part of that population is kind of the diplomat that goes to other tribes negotiates deals are traders and they kind of live outside the community and it’s kind of not well researched how this happened obviously we need those people we always needed them but I don’t know how the imprint on our personality actually happened because it seems like this comes from our DNA it’s not something Ruby one day said oh I read a book and then I decided I have to go I already knew I wanted to go but then the book like Jim Rogers really helped me he’s like man you can’t go around the world and it’s really not that hard if you put some effort to it yeah yeah yeah it’s uh and so we just left after 10 years in New York we uh so we settled down in Bordeaux and even here when someone heard the other day that I will probably go somewhere else again in two three years I’m like but I thought that’s it you you’ve been around the world you’ve tried everything I thought that’s it you designed out to settle down like no I hope not I hope never I hope I’m at least 10 20 life inside of me until I die oh my god I want to explore now it’s great it’s great to have a three years old sound so it’s great to be based in Bordeaux amazing quality of life and I’m enjoying the wine cheers so it’s a great place but we’ll see in three four years what do you think going back to Europe now I I always love that moment I kind of don’t want to do it I’ve been here for 20 years and I for all its faults and especially San Francisco which is a really weird town a really weird people sometimes fall for all its faults and boom and both cycles I feel really home in the US and you live for for a long time in the US how do you feel going back and how do people react to you when you tell them your story right so it’s uh many times it’s a cultural shock I mean it’s uh I was uh you know I mean young investment uh you know young VC based in Bordeaux you know 30 32 years old and I was pitching my my new project they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about right it’s a personal growth platform we want to do sort of like mindvalley.com but they didn’t get it they didn’t know anything leadership coaching and they and then the call after I had was with a a big investor in Dubai and the guy’s Mackenzie Kapem Mng numbers guys yet totally gets me no understand the the the business acumen I have and you understand the the world I’m going into personal growth business totally get it and I’m like I’m much closer to this Arab guy based in Dubai finance guy than those young French people we are much closer in mind right it gets my journey so it’s a it’s a cultural shock especially the risk I don’t know much about Germany right I I know a little bit not too much I can’t speak for Germany and the rest of Europe I can only speak for France there is absolutely no notion of risk right it is up the the felling is like the the the most horrific thing you can do in your life so people don’t jump into a new career a new journey until they absolutely sure I mean the the French system used to be brilliant the education system not so much now anymore but still 15 years ago was still ranked one of the best in the world but they would only jump in a career where they know they had either a family background or friends or the grade or the right school to get in and and still now it’s fascinating as a but I see a gap of course with young people right under 28 years old it seems there’s sort of a commonalities between young French or German or Pakistanis and they’re much more whatever they’re much more go getters but the the average French person has no notion of reinventing yourself risking and there was a something I was telling myself the other day here la bien séance est plus importante que la bienveillance ou le risque means la bien séance means all the politeness is much more important how you sit how you speak how you dress how your hair is much more important than what you do who you are as a person it’s fascinating my wife was american she’s american japanese you know i’ve lived four years in japan before meeting her but big fan of anything japan and she’s she loves she has no idea how France is as amazing when it comes to quality of life she’s like the french you really know how to live yet it’s so difficult in the business world she has no I mean she only worked in LA and new york before right so of course she worked in the two most business place in the world people are so professional um and here she’s like french are so nitpicking right nitpicking just what is wrong with you what is wrong with you never never something good in the business world in the day in the professional life yet when it’s time to enjoy yourself that’s fun and right there is a degustation right here testing right in this tech incubator today right of course and sometimes some cheese and at 4 p.m everyone is eating cheese and it’s cliche but so true we see every single day see which will come back I I think when when when I think of Europe I think of it as a fortress and the fortress in the sense of it has these ideals often many hundred years old and they barely change the the pressure that competition exerts on us in the US and I would include the UK to some extent the UK is probably in between continental Europe and the US in terms of development there isn’t the same competitive pressure there are much fewer raw metals and the amount of early adopters is pretty small they exist um so you go to Berlin and there is a good amount of early adopters but I I had a startup in Germany the problem is yes you can build a startup but there’s literally nobody you can sell to in a 2000 mile radius now you can go to the US and sell there but most likely there is someone in the US doing exactly what you’re doing as a startup already so it’s going to be a tough challenge for you coming out of Europe to sell it it’s can be done like Spotify and there’s a bunch of companies who who actually excelled at that and I think also the sum of this they accepted that model that they have good engineering they have great people in Berlin right there but the markets for them often in Nigeria they have Pakistan but all the tech and actually the infrastructure the payment infrastructure that’s all run from Berlin so there is models you can build around that but I think the the whole idea of you have several lives you have several careers that doesn’t go into European minds because the idea is that basically the society around you and your parents and your heritage they determine who you are it’s not you you’re like a cog in the machine right so the idea that we are made in the image of God yet we we pretend in Europe to be Christian but it doesn’t go that far right it’s basically yeah Christianity give us the rules and I mean we live by the rules but why do you have those rules please don’t talk about that and please don’t talk about you have you being made in the image of God and you have enough freedom that beyond like you know really highly proclaimed human rights that Europeans always talk about they don’t really understand freedom of the mind and you don’t want to understand because everybody and I think they keep saying that when you go to a new country there’s two kinds of troubles the ones who arrive relatively fresh they smile a lot and they’re happy and they explore everything and you see them in many countries the people who stay quite a bit longer and they’ve been cut down on their needs right so the locals have told them you can’t do this you can’t do this and they put the verb you know in that in that society so the countries escape like other travelers they only go through and they say the same is true in Europe most people who actually live in Europe they’re kind of jealous for other people who could have these other opportunities or could be outside the pond so to speak and you don’t really want to hang out with them too much because they they kind of are reminded of their jealousy like they don’t when I think that evil people I’m just saying they they feel something is missing in their life and something they would have wished for and they could have only they feel in their mind could have achieved when they were younger and they don’t want to be reminded of that so they avoid people who are like that and they kind of make them a pariah so they don’t have to worry about that anymore at least that’s how it works in in Germany which is a very close minded society they’re very good at doing what they’re doing but they don’t want to be on that yeah yeah I see part of my family is very conservative and for them you know when I talk about open mindness and traveling and inclusion diversity for them it’s if you change or if it means you don’t like us you hate us it’s actually it seems this simple idiot equation for them right you lack other things therefore you don’t like us and it’s I mean it’s a part of my family I can’t even exchange words anymore it’s just we are so much into yeah diversity and inclusion and you know all corridors all whatever just as long as people are good and they have energy that’s what that’s all I’m looking for like someone with good energy wanting to do stuff that’s what matters I mean that’s you know there’s a there’s a French sentence rentré en communion d esprit I guess you know fine fine commonality but it’s it’s it’s said in a much more beautiful way it’s I think this is what you know all of us are after right I mean you talk to me about happiness I think it’s just you know belong belong to somewhere where we should all be one I think for me it’s it’s so much for happiness where we understand that there’s so much jewel inside of us and then we just you know it’s cliche simple but it’s funny the more I’m doing research the more I talked about it the more I write about it the more the more I’m going for simplistic things you know it’s true but we are all one and there’s so much fascinating thing in each other and why not discovering at all why not going around the world and getting the best from San Francisco or Tanzania or anything you know I can’t wait to to to take my son and maybe you know go and live in Africa again or Asia or we’ll go back to America at some point of course but why not living with every beautiful energy on this earth right there’s so much things to experience and not to take but just experience to be in communion wave to feel the flow feel the flow of life I like how you phrased this and I think you’re onto something great there I know you spent the last couple of years really deep diving on happiness and where it comes from and I want to learn more about it I know you went to a bunch of different countries I know you researched tribes that have way more traditional that live kind of in the Stone Age where do you how do you define happiness a lot of people think differently what it actually is and where do you feel you’ve seen the most happen as over the most surprising happiness in people’s eyes right so of course after researching so much talking so much about it trying to experience as much of it for me it comes down to two things either the personal happiness or happiness at work it’s either searching creating looking appreciating joy right everything around joy so either you find it you appreciate you look for it but joy is very much part of your life and because there’s so much suffering in the world and Buddhists would say it’s all about suffering because of that because it doesn’t mean there’s not that because of the suffering looking for purpose and for me it’s that’s it and every single day for my life too is as long as there is joy I appreciate and I’m grateful for all the joy I count I encounter provide gather observe and all the purpose I can find or all the purpose I can give to other people so when I can give impact to people and I help someone on their own journey right and for me if you get this to cover right so many other things but if you get covered the appreciation gratitude for joy and the ability to look understand share your purpose you are you on your way I think for happiness do you think happiness is a bit of a fleeting emotion you just connected it to joy and it seems like it’s something that people it’s a bit like a drug like it’s a drug we don’t actually put something in our veins but it’s something that our brain produces and makes us happy in that moment and it’s kind of a quick fix right there’s some some some some height that we get but it’s maybe not healthy it’s not something long term that’s a lot what a lot of people would say right it’s a short term emotion but it doesn’t guide as long term right right totally as long as again you appreciate joy but it’s not the bulk it’s not the core of your life right for me as long as long purpose for me is much more the core right the ability to give to give meaning to what happens around you to happens to you to happen what happens to the world if and again so so many people don’t understand you know what I’ve been doing in cooperation as a chief happiness officer they they they always think it’s all about joy and and just joy and I said no no but joy it is important but to appreciate to be grateful yet the most important thing of course is purpose right otherwise this is why this is why so many people are depressed right now right and I’m not depressed it’s just what happened around the world now the covid and yeah it kills some of us business and it makes people not so joyful yet there’s a purpose all of us are finding more purpose for college so in a way I’m extremely happy for life to give us one more reason to to bring purpose the other day I was every every Saturday morning I host a room on clubhouse on personal growth one in French and I’m starting now on Sunday in English to host a room sometime on conscious tech which is a new field we can talk about this it’s a very emerging film but when it comes to personal growth I was invite I invited this young 20 years old Frenchman and in Bordeaux believe it or no he got kidnapped a month ago by a normal man wanting to ransom ransom him to his parents he was just walking to the streets I mean we’re not in Bogota here we’re in Bordeaux very safe so it happened everywhere and the guy you know he was just a normal guy normal Bordeaux young guy and he said my life could change I could traumatize I’m like I can die and all the notion of safety and I told him listen I’ve coached so many people I’m telling you it’s a great thing happened to you really be thankful you have to be so grateful for life even if it was a traumatic event and obviously you find now you’re not in your bed you’re working he’s got an internship because you’ve got you asking yourself all the right question about life now what is my purpose what do I want to do how do I want to live my life what opportunity am I missing or could I be doing you’re asking yourself now at 20 years old it’s perfect if you can combine your 20s with having a good time going out joy again and finding your purpose finding your next thing being what I call being in connection with the world I mean connection with with earth with what’s happening be you know conscious really the world I mean it took me a few words a few years to want to understand the importance of the world conscious but really to be conscious of what you do what you say how you feel and sharing and he was like yeah I think you’re right I think I’m grateful for this experience and he was realizing on the moment as he was sharing the story on clubhouse right now for his thing he was just I need to get over the trauma I need to get over the trauma of almost dying and being kidnapped no no be grateful for what that story gave you now I know I think if anything sticks from this podcast it’s going to be like kidnapping is actually a positive experience that’s what I’ve told us it’s amazing no it’s amazing how you you look at these things and you’re absolutely onto something we have those those dearth of really challenging experiences in our lives young or old right we live a comfortable life but it seems extremely boring and repetitive and it seems to be the white of human interaction for better or worse we have some facebook thing and you now have clubhouse which I think gives us a little bit of that but it’s kind of a fast food of human interaction it’s there but it doesn’t really make us as happy so and I’m curious what you think how this is related maybe it’s not at all the the question of not having a purpose of people feel they have less of a purpose they are making and getting getting on this journey of redefining their purpose is that related to people being less in love with religion let’s put it this way so the amount of at least Abrahamic religions we might want to exclude Islam there they’ve lost a lot of real followers people might still say they’re Christian but they don’t really think about Christianity anymore and where they come from on one hand and then on the other hand I feel there’s so much in their work life changing so much in their personal life is changing that they’re kind of worried that their purpose is gone away and they have to redefine themselves and that creates a lot of anxiety makes people pretty miserable that seems to be there the observation of other people can make right now right I mean first thing is the question the question of purpose for me is central to your thinking of happiness yet yet I do not think first of all everyone needs to think about purpose so one I think it’s a big part of happiness I love it I’m passionate about it yet I don’t think anyone first of all need to think about purpose some and I have a friend of mine in in mine one of my best friends he has no you know except being a good dad which is which is his purpose but he would never phrase it that way you know I think he brings a lot of good things to the world just being a good dad but the question of purpose he’s just it’s way out of his head at least 50 years old and and I really think people some people are living a good life happy until until until they get basically a the first thing a wall an obstacle they cannot overcome unless they think of purpose so that’s the first thing not everyone needs to think of purpose and for those thinking of for some of them they need to think of purpose only when there’s a crisis and they they just can’t grasp they can come to terms with William and then now with those who are actually thinking of purpose and it’s making them miserable then I go back to the first point which is forget purpose for what it’s fine go to joy I had the chance to work with many different corporation institution I’ve done a lot of work for the UN all sort of the united nation UNHR in junita you know UNICEF in Iran it was a crazy story I was in Iran I was waiting for my US citizenship and I went to Iran when it was not super it was not not advised to go there when you’re waiting for your papers and I went there because the excitement of going to Iran was June 2019 a lot of stress there and anyway so I’ve worked with different agencies of the UN and what I’ve seen in in those institution and many foundation in the world where 80 percent of the work of the workforce had a very clear purpose many of them forget about joy right and those people I said just forget just leave have fun forget about your purpose it’s fine it doesn’t have to be there first of all it doesn’t have to be there every time it doesn’t have to be there in your forefront and your your your purpose your purpose can be absent from your life and your purpose can change it’s fine you don’t need to be upset so on the one hand I say it’s all about for me joy and purpose yet sometimes it’s more about joy and sometimes it’s more about purpose you know you always go back to priority what makes you happy right what is the the one thing you need to get clear in your head that matters most to you to feel sort of whole in touch with yourself in touch of the world you know is it spending time with your kids is it working on your purpose is it making tons of money and again there is nothing wrong with anything and there’s not even a priority to have for everyone but it seems in many case having a priority and looking at your priority what makes matter for me now help you to get a bit clearer so I don’t know it’s a long answer to your question I don’t know if it makes sense but hopefully it does no I’m not listening to you so so one thing I’ve noticed in in my travels to a ton of countries is that countries that are seen as poor that seem have a lot of squalor they turn out to be and that’s purely anecdotal evidence I know surveys say differently but from my anecdotal evidence I felt that especially for instance of center in Africa there’s a lot of happiness there’s a lot of joy in people’s life um when I went to Malawi there were literally four year old five year old kids um taking the bus from one rural area from one village to another to go to their daycare to go to their first grade school and there was nobody helping them there were no parents around there were no caretaker around they literally hand in hand stood there waited for the bus and the bus would come and that must must be really safe otherwise the parents wouldn’t allow it and it was just so amazing to see it as army of children at eight o clock in the morning just strolling around the city um being very calm like they weren’t the children that I know in our daycares here that kind of run across the street and feel like they’re they’re invincible no they were they were like little adults but they were extremely cute yeah and I thought that’s pretty amazing in a country where we think oh my gosh it’s what is really dangerous right Malawi is being seen as a as a dangerous poor country which is but it’s it’s kind of on a different level so I saw a lot of joy in in moments of despite the the poverty in moments of people’s lives that I rarely see in a developed world and I go through San Francisco yes there’s a lot of great stuff here but people look super depressed now they have their masks on they all only look down they don’t look anyone in the eye they all they want is just be left alone with their cloud world right and I interpret this and I might be wrong with this but I think I’m onto something other it’s I interpret this as their happiness and their their overall path in life there’s something wrong with them maybe there is they’re probably very successful they’re probably making a lot of money 150 000 dollars doing whatever they’re doing for a tech company but from my point of view it looks unhealthy it looks like we’re I live in a mental institution so to speak and not in a in an up and coming successful city yeah no no I’m uh yeah I have to say the same thing I mean I 2011 that’s when I start to do some storytelling coaching and we were doing volunteering with my wife next to Moshi next to the Kilimanjaro and I had never seen a happier kid I mean they were so happy and we didn’t have kids at the time with my wife and I we I remember we one of them and because they were so poor and one of them didn’t really have parents taking care of her she was like three or four we asked the village you know could we maybe you know would she want to be adopted or something if if there is a need of course just to provide maybe I don’t know if it’s a better future because we were seeing them so happy and then we’re like oh my god but so happy but yet most of them they’re gonna be just farmers so with our you know white mind maybe just think oh so maybe we can provide a good future but then this seems so happy so it’s true that but I’ve also studied and I spent a lot of time with africans of course it’s not all roses but while they were at school I have to say you have much happier than any kid we’ve seen anywhere I mean my my son is three years old we see the other kids we were in New York and now in France so we see they’re not nothing like I’ve seen in Africa we same thing when I went so I’ve seen the more joyful people in the most dangerous place too and because maybe maybe it’s such a resilient kid because they know how tough his life is I mean it’s true that the best time I had in my life right was with people in Mexico with people in so in South Africa and kept down in the middle of the tribe nowhere and Ecuador and and there was some tough things we’ve seen some crazy thing in the tribes yet because not all tribes are happy yet there is a I don’t know it’s because they did those people I used to see much more crazy horrible thing from a young age and the parents not baby them right sheltering them that they have to see they’re forced to see the beautiful in the world but to answer your question yes in the most dangerous place in the world I’ve seen the happiest people hands down for sure right I’ve seen I mean the most miserable people I’ve seen in my life were in New York and that’s why I told my wife after 18 months in New York I say I don’t want to stay and we stay another eight years because she found a good job and I say okay I’m gonna work around the world so are you okay to be you know maybe one third of your time alone if you’re okay we still we stay in New York I want you to be happy so I was based in New York was well I was working across the world and I had my you know it was a very balanced life like this my wife was happy I was happy and but every time I go back to New York I mean people would you know yeah complaining and just with their amazing 200 300 400k job well it was coming back from a country or nothing and they just embraced me went to Pakistan and I was scared to death you know something and of course they welcomed me with open arms and many workshops I did the poorest country treat me the best we had the best experience they really wanted to learn from me what I had to say because probably because they know the value of something you know something that is good something that is rare right I’ve seen it often and often and then when you have when you have everything you don’t want to go further I mean we see that in Bordeaux such amazing quality of life but yet people because of that they’re not as often as creative as innovative but we take the best from everywhere right we my wife is okay it’s a three years journey we enjoy the wine on weekends and and then we try to you know we’ll try to to find the like minded people some in Bordeaux with the international community and and some overseas so so yeah it’s it’s fascinating the the so happiness I want to mention something else because so there is something called the happiness I don’t know if you if you if you if you’ve seen that came across that it’s a fascinating topic so studies have shown it’s scientists, sociologists, philosophers, those those who have done data’s analysis right I’ve not done data analysis all my experience is people have worked the tens of thousands of people have worked with but all of those who’ve done data analysis it seems there is a happiness DNA which means some people are really really born with the happiness genes which means no matter where they born in the world what sort of things they will be happy right that’s the people who they lose the leg to more there’s a car accident and they have no more arms and they’re still fine they lose all their money or you know they find they keep going the resilience I mean we could almost call the resilience DNA because the more I see the someone with without the resilience aptitude uh can’t be long term happy there is no long term happiness for long term happiness you need this ability to bounce back from drama from failure from trauma but I I have to say I keep I keep making a point that happiness no matter how controversial it is is important right again the way I the way anyway the way I understand it which is joy and purpose and for this yes and it doesn’t mean that you have to go after what only bring you joy and smile and money because money because that was not the case of my life I you know I it’s a really good one someone told me won’t say always look for effort not comfort it’s a really good one and I and I’ve looked for effort I mean I went to it sounds fun but I went to tribes of Tanzania or Pakistan and sometimes it was tough but the excitement of seeing how I could overcome the obstacle or overcome the cultural difference or find a way to get to their heart was much more fulfilling to just stay within a comfortable life and basically when I you know when I was 29 years old when I had been back to I had been back to France I had a really good job as a I was ahead of a finance communication company investor relation and you know nice apartment and beautiful office in Paris and I remember I was going to turn 30 and I’m like oh my god I’m getting very comfortable once again financially set group of friends if I don’t change now that’s it I’m stuck and that’s when I decided to go to America and try my my hand at acting and fact thanks god I did it just I see my friend who stayed in Paris and stayed just in finance so I we have nothing in common anymore that’s it they just have a no matter how successful they are they just have this one view of the world and and yeah we it’s really hard to communicate they don’t have this capacity to I guess put themselves into other people’s shoes or they just they really see the world as one thing and and you and I think of this thing I mean I barely know you but from what I read about you and you have this fascinating fascinating you you are fascinated by this sort of a continuous improvement of yourself and your ideas you try to challenge your ideas what else is different I mean I you know I I I was invited on french tv by by a guy who absolutely saying everything I say is bullshit but happiness and and I asked them bring him bring him back I want a third round two rounds and brought his argument brought mine and I say I want to I want to meet him again and he’s gonna you know it’s gonna make me just a stronger stronger guy into what I believe and the guy is just so firm in thinking that there is no place for happiness at work right because it’s part of the work I do right I work on personal transformation but I also work in the importance of happiness at the workplace and for me it’s it’s all about having meaningful respectful conversation being safe right what google call psychological safety that’s what basically happiness at work is it’s just you are safe to be yourself you are safe to be a person sometimes with constraints at work but basically it’s just about being I mean 90% of people are not themselves they’re living on autopilot they’re just this big executive woman I’m coaching in bordo and she’s 50 years old very successful courier and now she’s realizing she has no idea what what her life has been about she has no understanding no self awareness of her decision a style a rhythm in life and I’m like you know what a shame right of course I’m coaching her and I’m and I’m in a compassion and I’m helping her but I’m like shame she spent 30 years since she went to university just on autopilot right she had a good career but what was what was it for I think you’re you’re really showing that one of those major issues of our society and I I feel sometimes we are this this weird cult you know this old testament cult that broke off from the rest of humanity and just became these hive people we can barely exist in the wild anymore I don’t think any one of us can you know they have a tv show where one guy exists in the wild that used to be the default setting right so this is when you look at alone the tv show I love there is a winner and he typically makes it 90 days without any external help in his own little shelter but it’s something that was a default to an extended default of survival mechanism for us all and if we would only last 90 days that’s a pretty terrible score right we were talking about 60 70 80 years there’s more people around us but still you know you’re lived in tiny tiny groups and I feel this this cult that we created has been very successful in in moving their lifestyle towards technology into a cultish belief in technology and I think we we go went through different stages in Christianity was it was a stage in between and now we are getting closer to you know AI probably this is like the core belief in that in that in that row of religions in the sequence of religions that we’ve been building and that drove us there and what we’ve lost and I think we’re just not in harmony with nature and DD&A that we have imprinted wants us to be in harmony with that and we absolutely not I mean our life doesn’t resemble this it’s it’s a comfortable life and there’s a lot of technology in it for better I think most of us wouldn’t give it away and we all want our coffee we all want good wine we want good olive wine so there’s a lot of technology that helps us but it has really messed with our mental health and I’m not sure there is I think the the world goes through these cycles of self help right so it seems to be this happiness maybe isn’t really teachable you said earlier there isn’t DNA for some people who are always happy they respect what happens so damn right they go to war they lose all limbs and they’re still good but I I think there’s 95 99% population they don’t have that gene and the question is if if we can teach them if we can appeal to their consciousness and make them happy that way or and I think this was the solution so far that we kind of and you just had that example with the with the women the executive who has been in a company for so long I think what we’ve been doing we’ve been drawing up these role models we told people is what you should do I mean if you had a choice you know and especially in Europe that’s very popular you have a choice of 10 to 20 different models and do you decide when you’re 18 you can’t switch because once you look outside of that that little box that was made for you you’re in trouble because then you’re not motivated anymore you don’t fulfill your role anymore and I think this is the european system I think you’re also very popular in eastern Asia you drop these people in the box and then by by the time they retire they realize oh crap this box were artificially made I never reached my potential but I also never had to face the serious questions of life right she’s probably at an age now that she’s starting to realize that but for most of us the 2030s 40s 50s are filled with children and lets but bliss in the sense of we are unaware of what potential lies and I think this is where the internet now comes and it raises all these questions we have time to think about it we have you know productivity already went up a little richer and now we all wonder oh man what is actually my potential what I want to see the world I want to see how other people interact with the world what they’re up to and then I want to choose all the best things that make me a better person and and I want to do this in an as positive manner as possible and I think a lot of today’s confusion stems from this and we’re realizing these boxes might have been actually beneficial to us but they weren’t they weren’t ideal for us so the decision that we could make is always better than someone else makes for our future for the next 30 or 40 years and that will take a couple of years right to to deal with this and we’ll take the next 20 30 40 years to deal with that yeah to your point of having different models role models you know and not to be in the box uh first of all there’s a funny anecdote I was in China in 2009 I spent one year there and I was directing comedy movie but I also had a gram for them from the Chinese government and I was trying to study Chinese two hours a day and I still remember my Chinese teacher and she was like because I could never do the kanji within the box right you get a small square box when you when you repeat the kanjis and I said I can’t the box is too small and she told me maybe I know in your life it’s time to learn to be in a box and she was not even making joke it was it was her reality and she could not even she could not understand I could not draw and so much my personality you cannot put me in a box even my writing right second thing is the importance of showing different models to young people we built I don’t know if you’ve seen but we’ve built an event my wife and I will stand up for passion we did this event across the world for seven years right until covid hit of course and what we did is we would take seven ports personalities seven different stories stories of transformation I would cast those people we would coach them on how to tell the story in public and we would present seven people seven minutes each no power points behind no photographic so it was like a TED talk but deeper and it was not about the story that can change the world but the story that have changed you and I mean I’ve been consumed by this event of mine we were barely making any money but the rest of my life basically was helping me to finance that dream of mine right and when I was doing corporate work that was I could I could finance those almost self finance events even if we had some some sponsor and what we saw was every time in the seven people we would cast the the the amount of diversity in their life story in not only in their life story but the way they approach the world every single time the biggest takeaway the audience would take you know an average of 250 250 people in the room would say oh my god it’s amazing how there’s no one way of doing something every time I’m exactly yeah and I was like yeah obviously the there’s not one way but it’s such a reminder for most people there is not one way of doing something and even where you are for instance San Francisco a friend of mine very very smart guy and had been in San Francisco for 20 years or so and he was not doing so well at some point I mean he had like two three times he had been CEO of top startups in the video games industry and he was doing well and then I don’t know about eight years ago it started it was it was it was not working for him anymore but he did not want to get out of San Francisco he’s like I know I’m a tech guy I have to stay here but he was miserable and thanks god let’s stay moved he’s somewhere else in states enjoying his life he’s got a new work he was this money only has to stay in San Francisco right it’s like a fashion guy only wants to stay in Paris or an engineer MIT or whatever you name it and and those people say you know it can only be there right or or something else is there is only one outcome possible I fail or I will so many people when they enter a journey that’s why they don’t enter because they only see this by the the the cognitive bias that it’s either win or lose I’m taking the my own example so we’re starting a new project right starting human about we we online two more live it’s a personal growth platform and of course I’m building so it can be a very successful website and I think we’re going to do well but in the back of my mind I know because I’ve been it so many times that no matter what I’m gonna learn so much about myself the world people I’m gonna meet through that’s gonna be amazing and whatever something gonna happen because of that which is totally unexpected for me and it’s gonna make me grow and I do not know what it is now for instance when I choose to become a I know crazy right a happiness specialist 2014 I mean it was a crazy idea right I we are in February March 2014 and I say I’m gonna be a chief happiness officer I send an email to 2000 Mike to my 2000 around the world no one answered no one no one a guy take me out for lunch in New York where I was living at the time and a French guy a French entrepreneur and he’s like so tell me about this happiness thing you’re doing now what what what is this and and I and I explained to him you know when I found my happiness I went to tribes and try different things and I think people should be happy and even in company after I had explained to him for 30 minutes he’s like okay okay I get it it makes sense I thought you went nuts I thought that’s it I know he’s nuts he’s tried everything in his life and now he wants to be a happiness coach you and and I’m like okay so you’re not crazy and any probably what was the any probably verbalized what 90% of my connection I don’t I don’t I know I don’t think maybe that’s San Francisco reflecting on me but at some point I feel like being crazy is a good thing yeah the the definition of mental health is obviously you conform to the average there is no other definition there isn’t we don’t have like psychologists don’t really have a picture of what’s healthy they only compare you to the average right and you clearly are not in the average right bell curve right so you’re somewhere in the extremes of that distribution so I don’t think that the the immediate thought part of would be you are crazy and I think you should take it as a compliment yes and yes maybe as there’s a real reason behind it while you do this and it’s logical but in the end it’s going to take forever to explain this right so either people will eventually get it and they will realize boy you were onto something years before they even thought about it or maybe you were just crazy and that’s okay too right so a lot of crazy people did some amazing work in their life right there’s a lot of artists and there’s philosophers and there’s authors who are definitely not in the average I think this is good when we just well I had this discussion um I think it was with Simon and we talked about well why don’t we still have sociopaths why don’t we have psychopaths why don’t we have lots of criminals and also crazy people right why are they after so many many years of of selection we’ve selected positively for the people who are seemingly not crazy but we still seem to have the same percentage of crime doesn’t really change over the generations so it seems like there is something good in all these people and well this sounds a little crazy right because San Francisco is a city where nothing is enforced everyone runs around and takes fentanyl right on the streets and my kids see that on the other hand I feel maybe this isn’t so bad right maybe it’s it this is growing up and seeing reality as it really is and not being coddled and just looking at you know an ivory tower maybe there is something to it but I’m it’s hard to see that at some point I’m really worried by it and I’m really curious maybe we can we can go there um about your time in Hollywood I think everyone in Silicon Valley which billionaire Mark Benioff or not so rich dreams about going to Hollywood which seems to be the one thing everyone wants to do and it seems to be impossible to hack there’s a lot of money that’s being burned usually Silicon Valley money YouTube brings a lot of money then it’s being burned at Hollywood and nothing ever comes back so Hollywood seems to be this culture sect that creates this new religion we have we have moved it so far up in our our way of thinking but money is only produced by relatively few people in Hollywood a really small old boys club old boys network now it’s not just boys but it’s relatively shielded inside a club how did you get to Hollywood how did they receive you what did you learn from your couple of years of experience there so Hollywood was so important to me that now now every single day I have sort of created a mantra for myself and I go through the letters of the alphabet from A to Z and each letter means something so when I get to see I think of California and I’m like I’m forever grateful for what I learned in LA about stage and storytelling I mean we can talk I spent six years there right for me I mean let’s start from what I got out of California is first yeah I’m grateful for having the guts to live there I went there for we’ve I don’t know maybe what 15 000 euro in my pocket at the time from France right that’s all my saving at the time as in a young french executive not much and and you know it took the guts I had a good career in France to go and live there so I’m grateful for having taken a risk then what I learned there on stage I mean I was mostly I did a lot of things I was a as a director and screenwriters and actors I was on Gilmore girls and a few episodes and a bunch of commercials and many more independent movies but the bulk of my time a career in Hollywood spent on stage doing stand up comedy and for me what I got as a stand up comedian was a way to connect to people fascinating a way to I guess to to feel what the room feel like what people think of me you know so the more the the more you you get into people’s mind the more you think about you and you like and don’t like but at least you have a at face value what the what the sense of you right whether it’s positive and negative any for me there was the best school you know that connect to people I can talk for hours and hours on the world of comedian because I know it well but so not every comedians brings back that to life of course and many of them they are great when they are on stage and outside of stage life is a mess actually I would say for 90% of them maybe it’s one of the reasons I left comedy but for me what I learned on stage on how to connect to people is probably the best thing I’ve done in my life the the school of life you know and when you start and I was a French guy so with this French action making jokes in English and some people wondering what is he doing what is he saying and and then you know after after a few months I get the gist and I get my you know how to construct my jokes and and I get them and I and and the level of emotional connection I had with those people is you know was is it’s as high when I do a good coaching and this is very in terms of emotional connection I don’t know you know there’s many when you when you’re on stage when you make the making love or when you are coaching for me when you’re coaching someone you’re really helping or helping her to understand his or her life and and really making a a switch a conscious switch for me the intellectual connection I mean intellectual and heart connection I have the public was something amazing and once you touch that as a comedian it’s just you really you you touch gold and this is why many comedians you know they addict to stage and even they don’t 99% of them don’t make any money they just every night to get this 20 minutes of connection with the public is just phenomenal so what I’ve learned about myself the world you know to learn the culture of a of a country there’s nothing like stand up comedy right to to learn where America is at now if you go to France and you listen to French comedy and I bet it’s the same in German comedy so what I learned is German things German comedy we all know that I know a guy who does does comedy in German actually so I would love to study for instance even if I don’t speak German I would love to have a translation because it really gives you a a nine to the country it gives you like an entry point into the the cultural mindset of the country so first of all what I learned in comedy in terms of connection to people storytelling of course the art of of of making a story of of building up the emotional stage so I’ve coached hundreds and hundreds of people doing public speaking and I was a I was a jury just this very Saturday on the best French if you want public speaking persona and it was fascinating how you see so much personality when someone speak on stage I mean we can talk for that it’s another topic on the stage persona either so I learned about stage and storytelling so much and then the craziness of Hollywood yes getting into movie and acting and because there is no logic there at least in the business world at some point if you do things right if you hide the right sales person you you pivot enough you’re gonna make an entry point I mean there is you can sell you you might not be Bill Gates or Elon Musk but you’re gonna you’re gonna you’re gonna find a way around Hollywood there’s no such thing there’s no logic right it’s a it’s a it’s a mix of talent it’s a mix of luck of encounters but it’s fascinating for that I mean I I I do miss LA for me it’s for me it’s it fits my personality right I would love to still be based in LA I love the creative minds of farm actually for who I found the best my the most creative guy is a German guy Werner Herzog yeah right the director I love this film I’ve read I’ve seen every single of his film I think I think there’s maybe one on IMDB I’ve not seen anything like I think he’s made 25 movies and the guy said himself I’ve seen him speaking on stage and he said for me it’s a very creative town it’s a what contrary on what people think and they think it’s a superficial town whatever it is also a superficial town and there’s so many reasons of that because many actors and creative person are lost soul they really lost soul the people with a good heart at the beginning they want to be in touch you want to be they want so much to connect to people that you know they lose themselves people to drugs and and and crazy sex or just the views and because they just so want to be recognized and and I didn’t lose myself but I certainly had that drive to I wanted to be I wanted to be heard I wanted to be seen and and and and I still I remember the day I had this feeling it’s a country of a lost soul I was in a party and I was talking to this gorgeous girl and she was late 30s and you know she had passed this point where most likely she’s never gonna succeed in LA and and and and she probably had come with so many dreams and a beautiful and naive heart and which I think for me is a great thing to have but you know it was like she was going like I’ve seen so many guys on the way down she used her 20s and early 30s to try to be someone and be seen and and maybe doing the wrong thing so now it’s a bit sad and depressed and even though she’s still had a beautiful face her energy was so sad right it was just like oh and it’s really for me it’s a it’s a it’s a city of lost soul and then you have those sharks and business guys going around and using it but then there’s also the most beautiful jewels because they still make amazing movies that make you think and change the world and I mean I don’t know if you saw the movie the last disney movie called soul no no it’s unbelievable it’s a it’s a cartoon movie it’s on netflix yeah netflix i think it’s on netflix oh no i guess it’s on disney’s channel right it must be on disney channel it cannot be on netflix uh on the disney you know disney portal uh it’s anyway fine s o u l it’s just oh my god it’s just i mean i love storytelling makes you move like you you just just forget the world who you are with and all of a sudden everything makes sense for 90 minutes so i really love la i mean i love the creativity the everything after a few years in la everything else seemed easy like i mean i leave the la thing right i i was in the grinding and i was doing you know stage at night and audition during the day and trying to party at night and and you know and working out like everyone else at the gold jean trying to look beautiful so i’ve been to through the the you know sequences of vanity and everything so i it’s sort of an acceleration of life and and in a way you know i can say i got it i get it out of my system part of it not all of it um so it’s for me it’s a it’s a accelerating story of the world of how people are i mean i love and and i love to listen to the up and down of people in LA they at least they live right and i can picture a friend of mine is he must be down this guy must be how old is he must be like 55 still like he must be like 55 years old and i still remember talking to him like you know maybe he was five years ago he was 50 years old very handsome french guy i mean like james bone face the guy had been an actor and male model his whole life really gorgeous guy and and i remember you know he i’m like don’t you want to do anything just like i don’t know like a real work on the side or at least writing or just you know and his whole life was about basically a chasing woman and and appearing on film and he had some minor success but nothing nothing big uh and he’s like just i don’t know you have no idea the the ability to just be free and doing exactly what you want you know and and for this i admire you right i maybe i don’t have the intellectual conversation i can have with you and my friends in new york city big startup entrepreneur and fascinating engineer i cannot have the same conversation yet you know it demands respect the fight the guy went through uh through the keep going through the ups and downs of life just to try to you know to touch what is at the very bottom of it right is he follow his freedom he follow his heart to the end of it right and if he dies in LA you know i think no kids and just just following his dream but at least being free and and in his own word doing what he wants you know so few people do that you know so um you know and then i know what i mean i can talk about so many things in LA but i’m i’m so really for me grateful for the years i spent in LA they were not always easy but just for for those emotional connection i had on stage with people and you know i had some minor success or so you know i was on last comic standing as a quarter finalist and i was on mtv and e entertainment there was probably one of the only european comedian they even hired at some point i was close to have my own tv shows and and didn’t happen which is fine because some producer was saying we we can’t imagine the 50 years old woman from you know Georgia and Mississippi understanding your accent and i was like but they love it it’s okay they love it it’s charming don’t worry they’ll get used to my accent right and fine it didn’t work and and i moved on and maybe i’ll go back one day maybe i’ll make film again when i can hear i can hear the excitement and enthusiasm enthusiasm you have for LA right that’s that’s pretty astonishing and it’s it’s something where i feel you would encounter because of this this this crazy competition and the crazy amount of of it seems to be a very short term maximization of success and what that leads to is that people become fake right so they do become fake because it makes them money at least for the next six months or the next 12 months and it’s very natural to do so you so you lie all the time it’s kind of where i grew up like communism was everyone lying all the time there was there was no benefit of being honest like literally not so everyone was just better off lying 99 of the day but they knew the other person was also lying so and they knew that that the newspapers were propaganda and that tv was propaganda so the everybody was in this continuous line there was barely any time spent on the truth at least on a long term truth but that was okay that was recognized but i felt it didn’t really create good outcomes because some people at least have to think about the truth not not all of them all the time obviously not and that’s maybe too complicated but even the intelligentsia barely had any handle on the truth they could and if they wrote about it it needed to be coded in some science fiction or some weird novels and i think this instinctively and you said that earlier there’s no logic to hollywood there’s just pure creativity and it’s this freedom and i think this will be things that would attract me right away well i always felt i would be worried that i fall into the thickness trap um that i i become someone i don’t want to be because i really want what’s on the other side of that producer right on the other side of that agreement and this is going to be my way to make it big and i think this this is great right i think competition breaks out the best in people i’m not so sure that’s always true for hollywood maybe i’m just i’m i’m just don’t know enough about it but i would be that would be my biggest worry otherwise not that the competition is too high yeah no no it’s uh yeah so it’s a it’s a it’s a valid point i just swing out of so much desire to be something to be someone to meet people you know i mean i always say you know it’s it’s not out of talent it’s out of desire it’s out of energy that we find the the best thing i mean is san francisco for tech uh tech startup right because there’s so much desire to create the next best thing that actually there’s amazing things and the same thing as in uh as in uh new york as in la for for creativity and film um yeah so much to be said we could go yeah so much to be said for for la did you feel and i i i recognize that religious experience when you talk to a crop right when you are and when you’re teaching when you’re a coach or when you when you to stand up comedy is just the human recognition but also leading the emotion right so pushing people into the next stage of your script that seems like you know shaman or a pastor has a similar role in life right it’s this influential role and it seems to be very gratifying do you feel there is more religious instinct in hollywood there is more of uh how do i say that like there is some organized new religion that is being sold or that’s just rent it’s just it’s really what would sell this being made it has nothing to do there’s no hidden agenda it’s not even there’s not even is something unconscious that’s behind it i mean for me you know i would say it’s something unconscious it’s really again this from the desire to be heard to be seen to be somebody to be somewhere to exist i mean i mean most of the at least you know for all the factness they have they many of them not everyone they at least they they feel they exist yeah right even for the the the the creation of someone else for a screenplay or a character you play but for the for for those few minutes you are alive which is crazy because it’s when you play a character or something else when you go on stage it’s not totally yourself but it’s yourself but yeah for those minutes you’re more alive than in real life for most people than most people will ever be alive i mean just i see i mean right now i mean i mean i mean i mean i mean a i mean a tech incubator and i’m seeing those people just you know on the on the just on the computer all day long and i’m like oh my god i’m so happy i had a life before you know i’m creating a starlet but unless they’re creating the next best thing you know it’s like oh my god i mean unless they are like a programmer loving his line of course but you know many people in just doing let’s say marketing or you know logistic and like just are they alive during those hours are they just just autopilot and when you’re 20 you need to at least do something alive just exist every day even if you die i mean for me even if you die in five years at least you’ve lived you’ve had an impact in terms of just uh you know doing a marketing strategy for a company and go home and and and shag your girlfriend or whatever right just just like it’s so it’s like some of them are young people trying to shake them up you know just what are you doing what what’s your dream is it i haven’t thought about it i’m like i’m like oh just is it is it what you really love if it’s if it’s what you really are please keep doing it but i just don’t for 95 percent of people i don’t feel that right in most places i go or companies and and and and and many CEOs busy by the way when i was hired to do a happiness workshop um trust before the day before they like you know when you’re gonna talk about passion and purpose are you gonna are you gonna make some of my employee flee away and and trying to find a passion love and after two years i’m like yes yes some of them five percent of them probably not gonna want to work in your company after just the day of me working with them as a group as a group yeah and the other no no but it’s gonna be a good thing you don’t want people would not supposed to be there you don’t want for yourself for the pretty productive productivity of the company for the world for humanity you don’t want them you you you don’t want most people you know there are only 20 percent of people that fully engage at work 20 percent but at least 20 percent of people any company anywhere in the world any country almost 20 percent of people are fully disengaged at work disengaged you don’t want those people around so i mean what what’s the point of just clinging hanging in a search of a of a you know a so so corporate culture yes some people but the people they’re gonna stay they’re gonna be much more much more uh the french word come to mind much more soothe they’re gonna be much more more glue to each other that’s what you want you want a tribe of people they know why they’re working at the company you don’t want those 20 percent they are just just there because there is a paycheck and because they were lazy to find any other job somewhere else i mean and when i have this sort of philosophical conversation with them it’s philosophical yet it’s about productivity because in the end it’s those people they’re not working hard enough and they board and they so they don’t have the best idea um i’ve been pondering i’ve been pondering with this motto and i think it’s it does apply mostly to adolescents and and people in their 20s but i think it might never stop is this we have the freedom and the ability to have an individual and powers of thought that each individual can really follow this how can i make the world a better place i don’t have to have a huge organization there’s nothing wrong with the big organization but you don’t necessarily necessarily need it anymore and you do have a lot of downsides being protected especially when we talk about europe but the downside is generally protected there’s housing there is some health care there’s some food so really don’t have to worry about that anymore and you would predict that europe has a more a society a citizenship that’s more in love with risk because that downside is already 100% protected like in us it’s not 100% but it’s maybe 80% protected depending on where you are and what the cost level is but with ubi maybe it will be but i think people are not spending enough time and that’s why i love talking to you people and not spending enough time to really think about how do we motivate people to actually not just be at home and watch Netflix all the time getting two thousand three thousand dollars ubi everyone but actually get out there and make the world a better place develop this app that nobody has ever thought of maybe make that movie nobody even thought of write a book um do whatever comes to mind that is not just a short term maximization of convincing someone i always call a little bit of a defrauding when you lie you defraud the other side and you you want to be someone you are not but which is okay to an extent you know fake it until you make it but there is a point of no return where you become a person you didn’t want to be instead try to settle on something where you feel you can make an impact that nobody else has and you know that’s hard enough because there’s so there’s nine billion other lines out there we have to first find out what they’ve done so far and add a layer to it and i always felt like platforms like github they’re really nice for this i know coding isn’t it looks really weird right you you you’re like a high person but as a coder it’s easy to add another layer because easy to see what other people have done add another layer and become world famous overnight and literally have a million downloads and get job offers from every single company on the planet and maybe get a start up offer right away so it doesn’t take long so i think there’s a lot of fascination that’s why a lot of young people go into this and and i i struggle and and and really defining i see this with my own children who are now teenagers i i struggle in in raising this initial spark how do i how do i motivate them that they even ponder these thoughts because it seems so much easier to optimize for well we stay at home we have a comfortable live um we watch basically everything that’s in the back catalog of netflix and hulu and maybe then we find another streaming service to watch and it makes me kind of happy and i know my my my peers do the same thing so why me struggle why put an effort in right i mean why or how or is your question why or is your question is how to give the sparkle or when the sparkle appearance is it your question well i’m obviously convinced that there’s a better future for this we need to spark but how to generate that in in the minds of someone who who sees that as not a great opportunity not yet at least right so i mean you know i might be wrong but really from every you know i’ve talked to like maybe hundreds of artists and the venture and entrepreneurs and you know people like you and i would just try to make a difference and try to live a life according to to what we think is right now and and try to to make a trace in the world more often than than not it seems to come from a lack really a lack of something childhood teenage years whatever a lack of money a lack of creativity at some point where there was a lack i mean when you i’m sure you’ve read a lot about ilan musk like me and apparently he was the guy who was born a genius obviously but also he had a right a lack of emotion with his dad and he doesn’t even want to talk to what happened with him and his dad when he was in his younger years in south africa and the guy was super smart too wealthy but apparently was so awful right the guy he needed to dream apparently ilan musk sometime would appear as a robot where people say hey what’s happening you’re not moving what are you thinking and and i don’t think if i don’t remember if he says himself or doctors etc but the guy was so at a young age like eight nine years old sometime he would just tune off in the middle of something thinking about something dreaming about this future life or something he would invent right and it seems that you need a lack of something you need to have not all the comfort right i mean i’m so i’m so obsessed by this idea and i’m so sure of you need a lack of something of being exposed to people having lesser mean than you that that’s what will create your your understanding of and curiosity i really believe you need to put people outside of the comfort zone if their their zone is comfortable uh i think it should be mandatory for any kid anywhere in the world before 16 17 18 to go and live with a different family with lesser mean if possible for three months uh i was invited to do an inspirational speech by the rye what was it called the rye woman’s club or rye business club rye is one of the wealthiest city in usa rye next to new york city and those two women who had a foundation they invited me paid me to do an inspirational speech why to visit 300 of their housewife in rye they all came with perfect looking gorgeous women they were all blonde blue eye and they all had the drivers of dmw must all of them it was like a movie i mean i did that two years ago in the country club i was like where am i i was like the the step for wives is it like is it for real uh every single woman looked beautiful and nice and and and they wanted me why because there is a crisis in this town of young boy killing themselves all of them have rich parents and apparently all of them say because the pressure on those boys to be everything right a sportsman handsome rich as their dad the suicide rate is higher than anywhere else because you need to go to stand forward and hover and i really believe so they say please give us a 20 minute speech where you tell us maybe what you think we should do to maybe not eradicate but decrease the numbers right more happiness i did it but i did it according to what i think is right to me but i probably lost a lot of business that day because my goal as a coach i hope i was going to get higher by by many people to do more speech but i i told them the truth i told them you know happiness is about joy and purpose and i do believe for the young men in this town for the young people if they want to have a chance in life no matter what they want to do they should go and experiment for a few months early on in their life what is it to have no means for instance for you it’s very easy to sign your son in broncs in the broncs for one month two months and make them live with 500 bucks a month i lost the crowd for the very first time in my life i lost my crowd anyway you’re crazy i still remember some of those women getting up and leaving the room and i was like but i did it consciously i even told my wife my wife said i don’t i’m not sure you should put this sentence in i’m like it’s really easy to say you know i i keep saying i’m going to send my children to Ethiopia for a year or to Malawi and just they they have to you know i give them a stipend but it’s it’s like a minimum like you said but it’s one thing to give this as a conscious advice to my conscious self and one thing is to do it to your children you can’t it’s it’s so difficult i understand that i want your daughter you know just leave her with her grandparents maybe for a couple of years it’s gonna break your heart it’s you just you won’t be able to recover from this that might be better for your child you you have that problem that you feel so much sorrow and guilt that it’s hard for you to live with this and that’s how i feel now and it’s it’s a quandary and i think as parents we underestimate how emotionally we be involved we are not making good conscious decisions for our for our children what we do we make emotional decisions that we feel are good for them but they are often different than what we would do with the same age children that are not ours and it’s this this a schism i think it’s it’s a great i mean i i feel that when you go on adventure or when you grow up it seems to be so much easier when you when you start from from nothing right when you’re poor and then the adventure is so much easier for you it’s probably so much more rewarding and i had george dyson on yesterday and he is the son of freeman dyson who’s really famous and then as physicists um um psych cycles and he his reaction was to live in a forest for 20 years and to just be out there and do something completely different he admired his father and he wanted to rise up to that challenge but it was it seemed impossible because he was that one in a generation his father was his one in a generation genius how do you deal with this as a son even if you’re brilliant that’s just very unlikely you end up in the same place so it’s a very difficult journey and we underestimate that for for our children how difficult it is for them to to reach that stage of value also because it takes longer right we we thought that then 13 year old was good enough to to work in the fields and do something useful right and maybe it wasn’t perfect but the child labor was a thing because it was productive i mean now think oh my gosh it was so cruel but yes these children also could gain some confidence they could figure out what they are good at now we run them through endless simulations my children never had grades in their whole life and they are what an eighth grade they never had great state they don’t know where they stand they don’t know if they’re better at math or worse nobody tells them and i don’t really know compared to their peers and i don’t know if if you run children through endless amounts of simulations is what we do until they’re 30 40 50 and they still don’t know what the real life is if this is a good recipe for society it seems pretty unproductive yeah yeah no yeah it’s uh i mean i i get it i mean my my son is three years old and you know i’m putting him in a not in public school because he’s half asian and i’m scale even in France of racism so i’m putting him in a Montessori school right next year so you know but i could say well you know if you get beaten up and you’ll learn the true lesson of life so of course i want to shelter and protect but i also prepare my life my future life like i know because i’m so attached to him you know when he’ll be 16 i mean i’ll encourage him like i did to leave home and do something for a few months somewhere in the world i will but i already know it’s gonna be so sad for me but i’m gonna have to do for him for you know for him and for me but for for him to at some point he’s gonna have to yeah i i’m gonna shelter when i can but i also know i also want him to learn the and in a way not too traumatic but you know around yeah around i guess if he has not learned tough things by the age of 18 20 it’s it’s it’s better he needs to learn before he gets into real life before 20 to 21 years old it’s better because then he gets 40 he gets a big slap in the face and it’s too late he’s got two kids he doesn’t know how to react yeah a lot of people have these these really conflicting thoughts when their children they go to the military right they they go to the army they go into the navy and they are what 18 19 and we look at look at the death numbers right so we look at what happens to to soldiers that get get killed in the battlefield but we don’t really look into the numbers when 18 19 20 old boys stay at home the death rate is even higher it’s comparable in certain areas is even higher so we think war is dangerous but just living life for a normal 18 19 20 21 year old boy is pretty dangerous always been right so there’s a reason we conscript most of the soldiers actually in that age which seems incredibly young they’re basically children that we sent to war especially in the years when they go to Iraq or Afghanistan and but but a lot of parents don’t put this together they don’t they don’t research the actual death rates would they say oh war is dangerous please please don’t go there but war could be something where you steal your personality you don’t come back the same person hopefully a better person might not happen right a lot of kids are really struggling and the argument can be made to people who sign up for the military in their life they do it for a reason either because that’s a way for them to to get a better sense of morality or get a better education so maybe it’s not the same person that not the average person right that’s that’s an argument you can make talking about all these challenges well what’s what’s next for you well you you said you’re building the tech incubator I can already feel a little bit that’s you’re not your heart is not fully involved in that is there something else you’re doing so so I I mean I my heart is into it but my heart is into it yet I’m always thinking of course the yeah the the next thing I’m I’m I guess so right now we don’t think adventure I feel yeah of course of course I mean I’m you know I can’t wait to to do a big adventure for now the the platform is what it is right it’s a personal growth platform we’re launching it tomorrow with courses on on resilience revenge and reinvention mental health burnout optimism feminine leadership diversity and inclusion and so forth by some of the best entrepreneurs and coach in France first and then American coaches and entrepreneur a year from now when when travel resume and then through this basically vehicle I want to travel and and my goal is to use this to go and film because we film masterclass it’s video masterclass and to go and film some of those people that went to our events before on stage and much more so I want shaman you know I want sumo guys I want bollywood actress on the platform and I want to discover I want yet to be surprised by what I don’t know yet basically so this is why I’m creating something that I know how to build I know how to build this platform and it’s going to be a means to an end right a means to discover new people right now because I’m not sure yet what I will be discovering and so yeah that’s that’s what we’re doing now would you are you interested in extreme sports it attracts a lot of people that that have a similar mindset to us so becoming a mountaineer going on going to Nepal and climbing all the the 8000 meter hills is that something you’re looking at or extreme snowboarding how do you feel extreme sports how does that fit in so I’m quite cautious when it comes to sports yet I admire people love it but there is some cautiousness I guess in me I’m tempted by doing it but I don’t do those I I but I do want to do those now actually at this later I mean I’ve done all sorts of sports so I need sports every day some sort of sports I’ve picked up boxing again lately you know and I box with 25 years old guys so very young age could be dangerous from time to time with me for me at you know being over 40 so I’ve not done extreme sports I’ve not completed extreme sports I love it for me so I do want to do adventure physical adventure by myself going to tribes and so forth but pure physical sports now but I respect I love and for me it’s one way to do a personal transformation right there’s many ways to do personal rest being outside of your comfort zone you know to get into a different space in a different space in your brain where you activate new neurons to discover a new not sure I verbalize it correctly but I don’t do extreme sports yet I so much respected I love it maybe because I’m extreme in my career that I’ve not picked up extreme sports maybe I would have picked up extreme sports if I were not in my career but I’ve been in extreme situations but I mean I’ve done the days I’ve done bungee jumping and parachuting so I’ve done all those things but I’m not done as a you know like yeah eight days crazy you know crazy whatever skateboarding mountain biking like crazy thing where it would be very dangerous for the numbers of days I’m considering now going doing some sort of a survival expedition in Antarctica and actually it’s a guy you should interview him his name is Jim nails nails I met him into a in some conference we were doing together and what he does in England he trains people for six months on how to survive in Antarctica for like eight days so I’m considering I’m considering doing that actually I am very excited by this so I can give you his his phone number and you should call him you’re gonna have an amazing podcast you know he you know he trains people into mental resilience and and what he and he he said something that restocked with me to this day he said so he has a number of weekends where he trains people what he would be like to be spending eight days in Antarctica you know under extreme condition extreme and so it takes them to the place mentally beforehand where they will go through the extreme and what he would feel emotionally right where you might die or you know freeze to death of or maybe lose him because frozen right or totally lose your way into ice and he said if I can take them there mentally visually before they actually do that and they okay we’ve taken the risk they good to go and I loved and I and I and I think this is what I’ve done every of my adventure right and I’m okay with the risk of possibly failing I’m totally okay I know I will get something out of it and most likely I’ll come out alive and like most of his adventure I think most people survive and I didn’t ask him if anyone died yet but I know it’s been extreme accidents and you know so I yeah I love the idea of extreme sports and I really I watch but I’ve watched every documentary on climbing mountain even though that’s the one sport I haven’t done yet and I’m scared right so I still have limitation I’m scared you know ice mountain there seems to be a distinction between us risk junkies it seems like athletes and extreme athletes they are kind of different risk junkies they relatively rarely go become an entrepreneur or they become actors it happens right but there seems to be two setups and maybe it’s genetic maybe it’s just what society imprints us with you I don’t have a lot of desire for extreme sports I really admire it and I think it’s incredible what they do and how they they look through a very different perspective and lens of risk but I for myself I’m too chicken for it so I feel I feel that that validates my point but there’s been a bunch of entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley who’ve taken that to the extreme I think it’s what’s the Oracle’s founder’s name I got him he does come to mind right now he started his sailing regatta with the ultra fast boats and there’s been a bunch of people who’ve been taking up kite surfing to an extreme and go out into the ocean here which seems extremely dangerous even from boats it’s not an easy place to be and but really I see an intersection so a lot of like Silicon Valley doesn’t it’s not really connected to sports beyond simple you know I want to stay healthy and I want to do the basic cardio and I want to eat healthy but it’s not it’s really going into extremes and then if you got you have this whole other set of people who who really feeling comfortable I’m going to accelerate it a really on them in really life threatening situations a lot of race car drivers but they don’t seem to have a lot of interest for Hollywood or a lot of interest for businesses they either think it’s so boring or they don’t have the same idea of risk taking applies there yeah no yeah I yeah I agree yeah it’s a different it so I’ve been wondering because when the day I did bungee jumping I actually took a lot of friends with me but none of them were yeah they were not really entrepreneur they were more architect or freelancer or some corporate guys they were not entrepreneur or artist right yet they all had a much better time than me when we did bungee jumping so I’m very proud I did it but I can’t tell you I was scared to death when I actually jump so and I was like surprised because I’m not afraid of anything usually right anything so I’m like I’m the one who brought my friends none of them is a risk taker like me all of them have a more much more you know set up life and not too much risk and yet they follow me the jump they did a second jump and and I was really scared the first one I didn’t do a second one and I’m like what what happened so I actually asked questions to the the trainer the the organizer I said what’s happening there I mean I’m the risk taker and even though I was the lead guy I brought my friend I didn’t have a really good time and he said it’s not the first time it’s very common when I bring entrepreneur many entrepreneurs want to do but they don’t have a good time they hate scare and many corporate guys are okay it’s sort of a because you’re taking the risk but usually you’re very much in charge of the risk you know and here it’s just a rope and it’s just you and you have no yeah no control over it no control and the risk reward ratio right so we as entrepreneurs constantly look at the risk reward ratio right we feel we’re really married to it and that’s we have played this out before we do something and you know just not just as entrepreneur but also artists they they look at the risk reward ratios but if most people are not aware of it and they just they just enjoy the emotion they don’t have any second thoughts they they get into this emotion they’re certainly scared but then you get into this emotion they hope that and that’s that’s what I’ve noticed it’s it’s it’s odd right so there seems to be something where the limbic brains easily takes over VV for people who are risk takers in that in a different sphere of life they kind of have more frontal cortex control over that they’re like oh this this is too much risk for the little reward that I get a little shock that I got right right yeah exactly this I mean I was really I really in terms of self awareness it was like it was a big moment you know and thinking like really I like to be in control of things but I’m a you know I’m an artist I’m an entrepreneur I’m an adventurer so yeah you you you you take crazy risk but you are in control so okay okay interesting so something to be said for that and and this well I hope you’re gonna do take more risks very soon thank you and I hope we get to see you again you were such an inspiration thank you for doing this thank you thanks for taking the time